A Year in Review: Our Highlights and What 2026 Brings

Björn: Welcome to the Afasteryou Podcast, where it's all about endurance sports and training. Sebastian Schluricke, Björn Kafka, and Niclas Ranker bring you valuable tips and insights to help take your performance to the next level. Welcome to a new episode of the Afasteryou Podcast. Man, it's already been another month and a half, Björn, right?

Niclas: Not great, I know. But we didn't want to spare you. You think the year ends nice and calm, contemplative. No chance. Niclas and Björn come around the corner one more time to fully ruin the rest of the year. Or — you could put it that way.

Björn: You could, right. Yeah — Björn, what have the last months been like? How are you?

Niclas: Yeah, those are the kind of questions. Niclas as a former journalist, those are always the questions you ask when you have no clue about the person across from you. How are you? What have you been up to the last months? You always said that. No, all good. Lots to do. There's also news — soon, we'll talk about it, we'll do a separate episode on it.

Björn: That's this line from Precht and Lanz, right? No idea. I think the Gemischtes Hack guys always roast them because they always drop that line — yeah, we'll do a separate episode on that. Oh, okay.

Niclas: Okay. Yeah — we had Christmas, ten people in the house, it was exhausting. Four kids. Four kids, aha. It was a state of emergency here. Okay, okay. Yeah, otherwise relaxed. We considered going away somewhere. Decided against it. We'll go away another time. Now the weather's so great, even in the mountains. Meaning a bit of snow, sun and so on — we're really going to use that. You go hiking. Can you actually ski? Well, I can cross-country ski.

Björn: Cross-country, but no classic alpine skiing?

Niclas: Nah, there are few things in sports where my wife is significantly superior. And skiing she is. Significantly superior. And yeah, the problem... With me — I'll just tell myself — if I started now, I'd invest a lot of time in it and definitely also break some bones, as goes with the sport.

Björn: Especially skiing is really predestined for that.

Niclas: Exactly, and that's why I don't feel like it at all. Old dogs, new tricks — sure, you can learn it, but I don't really feel like it. Ski touring and stuff I find pretty sexy. But it's tied to a lot of effort. It's not just — I quickly get dressed and go. It's a bit different for cross-country, because when we have snow here, I can go ten meters to my self-laid track and it's all good. Or quickly get in the car, that's also fine. But yeah, my wife is super. I'm the total lame one.

Björn: Okay. So that one's not coming back either.

Niclas: Nah, don't know. Before that maybe apnea diving. Oof.

Björn: Though that's definitely also a very interesting sport — how much people can control themselves. Ultimately it's largely about controlling the breathing reflex.

Niclas: Right, consuming little oxygen.

Björn: Exactly, and regulating your body, your cardiovascular system down. It's extremely fascinating. When people can hold their breath eight, nine minutes. Ridden close to the edge. There's also that movie, right?

Niclas: The Big Blue. Yeah. By Luc Besson. Old movie. Yeah. It's an exciting sport, but there are lots of other great things. I'm also — we have our time trial project I haven't prepared for at all. Not mentally either. I'm running a lot right now. There I notice — fun? Yeah, it's bringing me a lot of fun right now. It's also going pretty well.

Björn: I wanted to start running in the off-season and really since then I've had Achilles tendon problems. I was really motivated, bought new shoes, started — in my view — really relaxed, never ran really fast, ran one loop where it went really uphill, and afterward, bam, Achilles.

Niclas: Bye. That's the problem. No, I run about 50k a week, really easy right now. Oof, that's a lot. I've also run a marathon once, for fun. And yeah, I feel like it a bit right now. Okay, okay. But running is even nastier than cycling, because in running weight is really a number. Half a kilo less, you easily drop 25, 30 seconds per kilometer. That adds up over a marathon pretty nicely.

Björn: In marathon our vice world champion just ran a new German record. 2:04. Right. And Hendrik Pfeiffer also broke his record with — I think 2:06:25. So these are times — it's completely bananas. If you try as a good athlete to run that pace for a bit, you think, what's going on here?

Niclas: And they run it for two hours. On my treadmill there's a button that says 22 km/h. That's absurd sprinting. And if you think — sure, it's a bit faster now, but when Kipchoge ran under two hours, that's really a monster, right?

Björn: Yeah, it's really — I have the highest respect for runners too. It's crazy what these guys pull off. Definitely.

Niclas: But now it's your turn, what did you do? Tell us, Niclas, what have you been up to the last six weeks?

Björn: I have to honestly say — I was the main problem why we didn't record. We rented an apartment in Girona, and in the apartment we just didn't have good internet. It worked for working and such, but by a long shot wouldn't work for recording a podcast, especially when six people are hanging in that WiFi. Then it gets really hard. And it was never really quiet either. There was always someone else in the apartment, and the apartment was relatively loud then. Wouldn't have worked for me to record a podcast with a clear conscience and upload it and say, okay, it's fine. It would've been tied to lots of noise or bad internet. Yeah, I basically trained. Trained a lot. Had extreme fun. When you have such a good training group where everyone is more or less like-minded, it's really a lot of fun. And I've never trained so much in a month with others with felt so little effort. If the group is right, you sit on the bike five hours a day and those five hours fly by with a finger snap, because you're talking nonsense the whole time. In Girona you also have a trail here, a trail there, you ride to the sea, you have a nice view, then it goes by really easily. So...

Niclas: Weather was, I think, still pretty good the whole time.

Björn: It's insane. We had a tiny bit of rain on a single day. I think one day when I rode more intervals it was a bit cloudy. Otherwise we had 15 to 18 degrees every day, only sun. It was perfect. And a big praise for you — I did a performance diagnostic on site, a real one in the lab, and last time we two did a real one, when we started working together. I've significantly improved my economy. I now burn over 40 grams more fat at Fatmax, and my Fatmax is 45 watts higher than at our measurement back then. Meaning — everything we wanted to train and where you said, yeah, that's where you have to go — that's worked in large part. And that directly after the Easter-off-season out. Well done, Mr Kafka. Very good.

Niclas: Very good, I'm totally happy, you've now saved the year, Niclas, thank you. Right? Yeah, totally.

Björn: See, that's why I'm telling you. Very good. Right, yeah, at the end of the day for me — I pretty much keep doing everything the same, I train. I coach my athletes. And one small thing is going to change. I'm curious how big the project will be and how much work it will be. It's only officially from January 1st. That's why you're already talking about it. No. So I'll do that when the time comes. Then I'll also officially talk about it. And then I have to see how big it becomes. How much workload will it be? I have to say, I'm extremely up for it. Right, but let's see what the possibilities are to also just let loose.

Niclas: Very good. You can hear — we have a few side projects running. I also want to join a new podcast, have a guy here in mind. Still coming. But we'll do that next year. We'll see. We'll calmly talk about it all next year. You'll see — even though we haven't been on air for a long time, the podcast might actually get a bit bigger. And yeah, we'll see. Good stuff lined up.

Björn: Yeah, I thought — it's the end of the year, and I wanted to just do a little review, recap.

Niclas: Aren't you supposed to do good resolutions too? Aren't there these raunächte where you write wishes on a piece of paper, which you burn, and the last one that remains — you do.

Björn: Okay, could be. RV. RV, yeah, gladly. Or whatever. No — look, one point would have been, Goals 2026. Aren't Goals 2026 basically Resolutions 2026? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Overlaps. But come on, let's start at the beginning. Or just my beginning. What was your cycling moment of 2025? Where did you fever the most? What did you find coolest? Or where was it — ah, look, that's something new or unforeseen?

Niclas: Uh, there's something, but I can't talk about it yet. Yeah, unfortunately really. I'd like to. So cool. Yeah, that'd be my moment. Otherwise for me personally — so things that affect me personally — I'm really thinking now.

Björn: Yeah, or just where you sat in front of the TV and thought — dude, how cool.

Niclas: Yeah, the Tour is always crazy. I thought the Tour de France this year was mega. It was super hard from start to finish, super exciting, beautifully ridden, beautifully raced out, and then Florian Lipowitz on three. I find that just crazy. That gets a bit lost, yeah. But I find that's just the craziest moment, at least from a German perspective. And yeah, how he did it — not really on anyone's radar. Sure, he rode great, the Dauphiné, but everyone was like, let's see. And then he goes and shaves it up and does his thing. Doesn't get rattled. That was a cool moment. If we stay on the Tour — the thing with Abrahamsen was also cool. Crashes hard beforehand, only sits on the home trainer, and wins a stage.

Björn: It's really very bananas.

Niclas: That's just very, very cool. Otherwise — Andi Seewald, European champion, was also a big highlight for me. Sure, I've won a few European titles, but that was nice again, because the course was hard, it was challenging. Sure, I would've liked to have had more from Worlds, but that's how it is. Just didn't fit together. Then — Anna of course, Anna Weinbär, who went from hobby athlete to world-class athlete, in just a few months, was also very cool. Yeah, that was crazy. Those are roughly the cycling moments I found pretty cool. Sure there are many more, but that's right now...

Björn: I found it cool at San Remo, how Ganna rode with them over the Poggio. Basically with Pedersen and Pogi together. Sure, Ganna, you know, we don't need to talk, brilliant cyclist. But that he showed the class to ride over with the two of them again.

Niclas: And how fast.

Björn: Yeah, exactly. There's otherwise no climber — nothing — who went along, and a Ganna with probably over 80 kilos presses the thing up and over.

Niclas: Now someone thinks about this race. We have Poggio, we have Cipressa. And it's raced significantly differently than ten years ago. We had maybe a little wake-up call when Kwiatkowski won in 2017. How he pressed through there between Sagan and Alaphilippe. And then — how fast the first climb is now being ridden. Pogačar attacked about 2.9 km before the end of the climb, and they ride it at 38, 37.8.

Björn: I think you can — if you've ridden the bike that fast yourself, you can't imagine what that means uphill.

Niclas: It has 4.3% on average or so. So they ride — aerodynamics already brings a lot there. They also have to ride in the group. And then Pogačar rides the thing almost alone over the top, almost alone. Pfannepohl on the back, Ganna on the back, then Ganna loses a bit, claws back. And it's a totally exciting race, because it always concentrates on these two climbs, Cipressa and Poggio. And earlier the first climb was always ridden — I mean, in 2016, 2018 they still rode up at 32, 33. That's a joke. And now they basically sprint there. Now they ride up at 37, 38. The last climb has always been ridden fast. But that this launch ramp is already being used on the first climb — that's crazy. Extreme pre-selection. You see, I've occupied myself with this topic, funnily enough. I know the race really well now. It wasn't arranged. I just engaged with Sanremo a bit more. And really interesting — if you look at the times and speed development of the last ten years — you have to — through the limitation of possibilities, you have to get extremely creative in this race and think about how to ride what and where. And now they blasted up with brute force. And I almost suspect —

Björn: It'll probably develop another notch in 2026, because Pogi is missing. He's missing this win and he wants this win. I'm pretty sure he'll do everything for it and the team will do everything to get this win. And the only answer to beating a Mathieu or a Ganna there is — okay, we have to ride the climbs even faster. Because Pogi wants to lose the guys otherwise. On the flat he won't lose a Ganna or a Mathieu. On the descent he won't lose a Mathieu. He has to ride the climb even faster.

Niclas: Yeah, you just have to hammer it up. They did that well. This year — Navarro — similar to the Tour. Sprints up.

Björn: That was so cool at the Tour too.

Niclas: Yeah, sprints up, and Pogi is hanging in the back, and yeah — ultimately you have to blast in an unbelievably high speed 10 km before you hit the climb, so everyone's already on the edge in the back and everything that's already disrupting is gone, and then you have to ride up there. Then of course you have — then you have another 10 km in between you also have to be able to ride fast. And that's the crux. How much do you burn yourself up riding alone across the flat? Or you have Ganna and Pedersen in the back, who can rotate the two of them. There your beloved compound score is decisive again. And then you have to press the thing up and then it still goes on. I mean, we've had situations — when Jasper Stuyven won, everyone looked at each other and then he just attacked. And I also liked the option Mohorič took, just bombing down so fast.

Björn: With the dropper.

Niclas: With the dropper post, yeah. It's all like — huh, okay. Where does that come from now? Really exciting race. Super exciting. And there were also — whether this mass sprint option still exists, I don't believe it. I think that topic is done. Especially in times of Pogi and co.

Björn: I think maybe, if Pogi stops going for the Monuments, or when Pogi's — I'll say — cycling era is over, which is maybe even foreseeable, because he's said so himself. Let's see. But I almost suspect that even when Pogi is done with it, then the next athlete comes, then his Mexican friend Del Toro rides the thing and will want to win it in the same style. Yeah, I think —

Niclas: Pogi has shown it's possible. And that's the problem. Meaning — now everyone knows, okay, we don't need a sprint train blah blah blah, we ride the thing controlled up. That won't happen anymore. Because everyone knows, okay, you can somehow press the thing up alone.

Björn: I think Mathieu also basically showed — you only need two guys on the team. You need a Silvan Dillier who rides the 300 km flat from the front for you. And then you have to be Mathieu and hack the thing up. Meaning you basically only need two riders at the start.

Niclas: Yeah, and that's also now an exciting thing — you have 300 km, why don't we just ride — what actually happens those 270 km before?

Björn: You also have to honestly say — those 270 km before are just dumb and boring.

Niclas: Yeah, nothing happens there, they're really — so shortly before it goes up the first serious climb, nothing really happened. So there's a small bubble in the asphalt and they ride around it. So it's like — if there's a storm, then it could get exciting.

Björn: Do you think it could happen that they'd really ride the first climb fast, and basically only a group of small climbers pulls the rest together? Let's see.

Niclas: Yeah. They already ride the first climb fast.

Björn: Yeah.

Niclas: Or which one do you mean?

Björn: No, they go over a pass. Ah, yeah, yeah.

Niclas: No, I don't think that happens anymore.

Björn: Okay. Because it's still too far after that.

Niclas: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Who knows. If people somehow — okay, let's play theory. Say you send a group up the road.

Björn: And you have a couple — where for example Nils Politt rides in the group up front.

Niclas: And Wout van Aert. Oh — then Wout van Aert. That's Campenaerts, van Aert, Politt — they're machines. Right, and then you send some fast climbers in. And then you have this satellite station and relay station, as it's nicely called. And then they keep pressing the thing on. Then it might look a bit different. But it's extremely high risk to go with that at a Monument.

Björn: I'm thinking — they send Politt in the breakaway and Pogi hacks this climb so fast that nobody can follow, and then Politt rides the thing home for Pogi. Yeah. Anything can happen. That's my wish for 2026. How far is it to the finish?

Niclas: I don't know right now.

Björn: No idea. Probably another 100.

Niclas: That's two and a half hours.

Björn: Politt can ride fast too. Okay, right. So for me it's definitely Sanremo somewhere, and then — sure — at the Tour I can't just name one moment. The Tour this year was more fun for me than I think ever before. Mega. Last stage, Montmartre. Brilliant. Just that last stage, it was completely bananas. Just that Lipowitz rode so cool there, and then also — I found — this drama around Evenepoel, that also — I know, but it belongs somehow to a good Tour, that there's a bit of drama around such a top star. This whole package was just fun, and I have to say — I play a Fantasy Tour de France in a group of friends every year now. And because you fever a bit every day for riders who aren't top favorites, where I think, okay, he could grab a stage win today, and I tip on him — that makes the whole thing really — those are always the best three weeks of the year. For three weeks I just have fun. Niclas, please explain Fantasy Tour de France. So — you basically — there's a pool of all riders, each rider is worth different amounts, and you have a budget. Meaning you can't have Vingegaard, Pogačar, Evenepoel and Lipowitz all on your team. You can only have three of those. Oh, too bad. Right. Then there are sprinters. All riders are in there, and you have to build your team and collect points. You of course need a sprinter who ideally wins lots of stages. And every day from your team you have to tip one rider who has the stage-winner bonus today. Meaning you tip — who from your team places best, has the yellow jersey — then you get double points on that rider. And that's insanely fun when you can tip a bit every day. Paula for example had, I think, Milan on the team, I had Tim Merlier on the team, and of course in the afternoon in front of the TV there was big shouting when Merlier won and not Milan, or the other way around. And then of course you have a bit more interest that maybe a breakaway also goes through, because you have — ...some small rider in there who makes it into the breakaway group or so. One year when I still worked at Canyon, I won the whole thing because — what was the Kazakh called, who's also extremely good, at Astana, he rode there for two years. He got two stage wins that year. And I had him on my team and that day even tipped on him to win. Because I thought — okay, who else should win. Okay, maybe he goes in the breakaway. And then he won that day. And I made so many points and won it.

Niclas: Who was that? I'm thinking.

Björn: The problem is, with Kazakh riders you always — he was the Kazakh champion. He's also pretty well-known, because he's won a lot. And he was also a good climber and leader.

Niclas: Kurve. No, that's not it. My god. Have to find that out first.

Björn: You're looking?

Niclas: Did he ride for Astana?

Björn: Yeah, he rode for Astana. But he rode back then for Astana. So we have to go back a few years.

Niclas: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking.

Björn: The people listening are having a crisis right now.

Niclas: Yeah, of course. Because it's — Alexey Lutsenko of course.

Björn: Lutsenko, exactly. So — sorry.

Niclas: Right, Lutsenko.

Björn: That was him. My god. Yeah. He's so good, you have to know the name. Sorry.

Niclas: Oh, that's bitter that we're tanking this.

Björn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ouch, oh well. Right — so clearly my two cycling highlights were Sanremo.

Niclas: You know where he rides now?

Björn: I thought he quit. He was at Premier Tech last. And now he rides at — no, he keeps riding.

Niclas: So he's still at Premier Tech. NSN they're called.

Björn: Right, NSN. Yeah. Okay. Not bad.

Niclas: Very good. My robot is saying its brush roller is blocked. Awesome. I feel the urge to clean it out. But I'll leave it, Niclas. I'm nice. Okay, thanks.

Björn: So I think those were my two main highlights, though moments like the Canadian becoming world champion — also really brilliant. Overall I have to say, the Worlds in Rwanda I found really good too. Cool to watch. Overall I find — even though Pogačar's dominance is pretty crazy, they're still always races. Because he also likes to ride off at 100 km plus-minus, and they're still races where you sit in front of the TV thinking, yeah, are they going to catch him or not? And, boah, 100 km, that's far. And then you see him getting slower here and there on a climb, showing weakness, and those are things where I say — it's extremely fun to watch the man ride a bike. Even though, sure — you look at the start list, he's in, he usually wins. But it's cool, and of course Roubaix too. Roubaix was also —

Niclas: Unbelievably good, how he brakes too hard, Mathieu rides away, and he also rams his Breitling into his forearms and bleeds nicely or whatever. Richard Mille. Oh, okay, good.

Björn: You know. Right, I found it was a very, very good cycling year. Right. Okay, then — you kind of jumped ahead earlier where I would've asked — of all your athletes, what was the moment — biggest success or just a moment where you thought, yeah, awesome. Did you have something else?

Niclas: Next to Andi? Yeah, Olli Matthais. Of course. Tour of Rwanda. Mega cool. I mean, he arrives as a continental pro. And rides around the world with the WorldTour crowd and rides onto the podium. Yeah. And also rides Tour of Istanbul, the prologue, wins ahead of Lotto-Total Energies and so on. That was a really cool thing. I find it great that someone — I mean, he has two kids and a full life. Until recently he worked a lot, and just rides so well. Put everything on one card and really shaved it up there. That makes me happy. It's not necessarily always the wins, but also how people develop. Also someone like Selma Lansch — second at the Europeans, super German championships, also made me really, really happy. Tims Menge, seventh at Worlds, brilliant.

Björn: Tim — his ride at Worlds was brilliant. When I saw it, I thought, come on dude. If I saw right — the times when I checked, Pastellona — he was around a medal up there. Right. I really thought, dude, Tim, run, run up there.

Niclas: He's — that's also a candidate really destined for a medal.

Björn: For Tim I just say — if the course fits and Tim has the form, then he gets a medal. You have to say with Tim's potential, theoretically a title is in there. From pure physical capacity he has it. It just has to come together.

Niclas: Yeah, exactly. He's such a monster. An absolute wattage monster. When here and there everything fits, descent okay and so on, he's always racing for a medal or title. That's fascinating. Right. Otherwise — I'll forget some now. Yeah, that's okay. There were many great things, which are always so much nicer when things weren't that awesome before. Yeah — Tim had, you know, his problems with allergies and this and that, or falls on his face. Martin Frey also made me happy — got a win at the end of the season, had an absolute pandemic year. Catastrophic. Sure, Andi got titles, Euros, German championship, also brilliant. Otherwise — Cape Epic, second place and so on. That's all mega. Don't even need to talk about it. All very, very cool.

Björn: From that perspective it was definitely my most successful year so far too — with Rick winning Badlands and with Anna with her silver medal at Worlds. That was extremely cool, and I think I also — especially with Rick, at Badlands, because it goes so long — You hang in this dot-watcher a lot and stare the whole time — where is he, second place, how much lead does he have now? Oh, please don't get a flat again, have nothing. You have to make it through now. That's — if you follow such a race very closely for 38 hours, that's really exciting. Crazy. And then with Anna it was also Worlds — I partly watched the live ticker the whole time and kept refreshing, because I thought, now she's coming over this mat. I want to know the gaps. Also really exciting. Right. And I have to say — I have an athlete who over the last year and a half, since I've been working with him, has extremely developed in performance. He started with 260 watts threshold and is now at just under 400. And he's — Family father, two kids, demanding stressful job, sure he has home office, that makes it of course — so has home office here and there, not always, that makes it easier of course, but for a year and a half the man has shown a discipline where I really have to take my hat off, how someone manages that with such a full daily life. During the week he always trains two hours, goes to the gym twice a week, and on weekends always rides his five hours. And he pulls it off with a consistency where I always think — two kids, family, stressful job, definitely more than 40 hours, where I think, boah, solid dude. That's really cool.

Niclas: And the family still likes him?

Björn: Yeah well, I don't know. So — that's the critical question from the older coach who also has two kids. I have nothing to do with that. Seems to work, at least so far. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him.

Niclas: Soon he'll have even more time.

Björn: Soon he'll have even more time. Joking. But seeing that — and I have to say, regardless of how successful an athlete is in races, it's always extremely fun when you notice, the person you work with really wants to — ...get better and asks questions, listens to what you have to say, and then implements it. And sometimes what I say is nonsense, or maybe not that fitting for the person, to put it that way. And then questions critically, yeah, can we maybe try something here? I have a better feeling with this. Then I think about it — yeah, okay, could work. Good, let's try it. Those are the things where I say — the collaboration is just so much fun. When people are a bit critical but still have a good working relationship. I find that's really gold. So — more athletes like that, please. Yeah, definitely.

Niclas: There are some athletes, regardless of how good or bad they are, it's just fun working with them, talking with them. That's really —

Björn: Absolutely. And I have to really say, I have — I have very pleasant athletes overall, I'd say, and it's extremely fun to do my job there.

Niclas: Yeah, that's also crystallized with me over the years, which I think is also because — I don't actively advertise. I think you don't either, right? No.

Björn: I don't do it either.

Niclas: I very much follow the Kafka-Schön principle. You got pulled along in my slipstream. That's why mostly very nice people or fitting people find their way to you. That was of course different earlier. Back then you also had people you didn't get along with so well. I have to say that. I think — Of course partly on me, but currently you're on a wavelength, clear.

Björn: Yeah, I think that — the podcast and the collaboration with you is of course the biggest advertising. But I also think, the people who listen to this podcast listen to us. And if they don't find us likable, they first stop listening. And then they don't come to us to work with us. And I think that's a point where I say — compared to earlier or to companies where you can work as a coach — people basically see the marketing, but they don't choose you as a person. And then it's always a different basis. That makes, I think, the big difference. Why I'm very happy to work this way now. So — after 38 minutes of basically just chatter.

Niclas: That was super.

Björn: What — well, now let's try to bring some value for the listeners. From the year — what would you say you learned most — training science, recovery, dealing with athletes — what did you learn where you'd say, that moved you forward this year, that somewhat changed your view on training and all the stuff, or how you train people. What are your main insights where you say — yeah okay, that was cool, that moves us forward.

Niclas: More helps more.

Björn: That's been said before, Björn. But it's true. More helps more. I have to add — more helps more, if you also implement the same principle with eating.

Niclas: Right, exactly. Eat a lot, train a lot. Simple. If the engine runs, stuff has to go in. More helps more with a lot of eating. There every tempo up to threshold works too, I'd say. I'd brazenly claim. Yeah. And pay attention to little things. That's always clear at the end of the day. You always say — we have to pay attention to the — Why are you actually wearing a Ryzen t-shirt?

Björn: I just opened my jacket because it got too warm. Yeah, because that's — I don't know — I got a few things from them two years ago, and since then I've had a Ryzen t-shirt in my closet. And when I'm just at home, I reach into my closet and put on whatever's in my hand. And I don't care.

Niclas: Is there also a pool with counter-current in your basement or something? Unfortunately not.

Björn: Maybe coming. It's coming. Depends how many athletes I coach in the future.

Niclas: I mean, there are better podcasts in this field.

Björn: Yeah, we make relatively little money from this, but it's fine.

Niclas: Let's do a triathlon podcast now.

Björn: No, stop. Though you can learn a lot from them.

Niclas: Absolutely, I find those are really good podcasts, you can definitely say that. But right — to come back. Yeah, pay attention to details. Super, super exciting. At the right time, use the aspects tailored to the race that are interesting. I really love looking at the Body Battery on Afasteryou, because it works really well. And it's like always in training and in all other things — with the development of humanity — it's not that there are quantum leaps, but that it — It has to trickle in slowly. It's mostly like that, then the pendulum swings somewhere. Super, we all have to do it now. I'm only saying polarized training, where everyone said nothing else works. And now we see suddenly — wait, we can also do Norwegian Method and then we find other things all the time. Interestingly from one country, two very contrary, seemingly contrary. Yeah, because actually the founder of Polarized was Seiler. Right. Yeah. Right. Who is in Norway, right? Right. That's what I mean, yeah. Right. And yeah, so — the exciting thing about all this stuff is that we keep going deeper, and things are slowly getting pared down. At least that's how I feel. And the core crystallizes out. And that's actually — training-wise, as you notice, not the huge insights. But working on weaknesses, and not only — I always find it funny that there are two camps. Focusing on little things and forgetting the big picture. Things like — I'm missing kilometers. Sure, I can't get around the kilometers. On the other hand I sometimes see — if I recognize something. No idea. Someone breathes weirdly or sits weirdly on the bike, whatever. And if I don't work on that, it'll manifest at some point and become a problem. Especially when I do more kilometers. So saying I work on these small weak spots, even if they're not yet problems, is right, so they don't become big problems. I find that gets often overlooked. And can also at — it gets overlooked just because it's laborious. It's just a lot of effort to recognize such things. It takes a lot of experience, a lot of know-how about data, trajectories, and then recognizing and also knowing what to do. That's something where I still see — you still get quite a bit out of athletes, where you sometimes say, crazy, where does that come from now? Yeah, because we changed this and that. I often have these aha-moments with athletes, and sometimes it takes years before you recognize — oh wait, he has this and that and we have this pattern, let's work on this and that. That's actually what brings the most fun, I find. Recognizing where the potentials are, and how I can — from seemingly small things, butterfly effect — squeeze maximum out. Yeah. So if I — sorry now, now I'm interrupting, I'm going back in, but you see, no insight. Everything's just a bit more.

Björn: I wouldn't say that, because one thing you said — more helps more. I think that's really the main point why in cycling right now, at least on the performance side, if you look at the performances of the last years, and especially across the board — It feels like everyone's just getting better. Now very dumb and provocative — reaching 6 watts per kilo at threshold, almost every pro athlete manages that now. A few years ago — so probably every rider at the start of the Tour has 6 watts per kilo at threshold. No, they don't, but they're all already pretty fit. Yeah, but what I'm getting at — I'd say way more people get way better than earlier. And I really think more helps more. And especially — have to add — not just in relation to training. Earlier you basically just trained and drank water. There — A small percentage came through, because their body handled it. But if you go today and take that lot of training, let's say 25 hours a week, and now you also start fueling that training properly — push 7000 calories into yourself each day and also eat 80 grams per hour plus on the bike, often even 100 grams per hour or 100 plus — ...you have a much larger number of people who can handle it and above all are properly fueled, and you get a much better adaptation. And I think that's something people still massively underestimate, especially those not in pro sport — the quantities you have to eat as a pro athlete. We were just — as I said earlier — in Girona, and there were athletes along with whom I hadn't worked on site yet, never actually seen their daily routine. Like — what do these guys eat? And after a short time the main thing was — go get Hexis and track a day, what you really eat. And this athlete burns in training, say, 4000 kilojoules, you can say, plus basal metabolism of 2.2. Meaning he has to eat 6200 calories per day. Yeah, so he tracks and he eats 4 kilojoules. Yeah, that's 2200 too little. And if you eat 2200 too little every day, don't be surprised why performance isn't going up. And don't be surprised why weight maybe isn't going up, why screw X, screw Y isn't working, why sleep is bad, why you're sick more often, whatever. Completely independent of the person. But it's just a point — And many people underestimate how much energy you burn, how much you have to eat on the bike. Optimally you also see — if I only eat carbs on the bike, I still end up with an unbelievable — I might have my 80 grams per hour but I still leave the bike with an unbelievable deficit. So maybe I eat on the bike also a Clif Bar, which gives me some proteins, a bit of fat, even a bit of energy, and then I have less hunger afterwards because there's some fiber in the GI system. Independent of whether you need that on the bike. No, you don't need it on the bike to be performant, but it maybe helps you across the day to keep your energy deficit smaller and not have such a big hunger afterwards. And I think some athletes still massively underestimate how much you have to eat. And that starts as soon as — You train 15 hours a week on average, I say, look — if you ride 5 hours on Saturday, 5 hours on Sunday, with what a big energy deficit you come out. It's super easy to track with, for example, MyFitnessPal — easy, just look at how much you really have to eat, because that's the gamechanger why things have been moving forward in the last years. Why the guys can hack 25 hours a week and not get tired — because they eat 100 grams per hour on the bike, and they demolish a pack of pasta every day after. We don't have to pasta — can be rice. But I think that's really more helps more. Right — you just have to be able to eat it. And if you can't eat it, then don't train that much, because you'll have no effects from it. You rather break yourself, you're sick, it's not sustainable. Always find what's doable for the athlete's balance, and then you'll have success with it.

Niclas: I saw a really interesting thing, a video on Instagram. Nutrition advisor, coach — she was asked, what's the craziest you've experienced? Yeah, WorldTour pro, Tour de France rider, 13,000 calories per day. I said, what? Okay, that's a bit too much. If you calculate — that would mean he was — let's say 5 hours ride time, 550 watts on average. Where I say — that was a bit too much, she or the person reached into the trick box to just come up with some number. Of course total humbug.

Björn: Those are energy turnovers that — really only an ultra-cyclist or for example — not even them. Yeah, but I had an athlete — I think yesterday — who rode the 500 km of the Rapha Festive in one stretch. At 238 watts on average he had that energy turnover that day. So he burns that energy through. But you can't eat that either. No, of course not. I'd claim — sustainably — I'd say for example 6,000 on average. That's doable. That's okay. Anything over 6,000 — I can say from four weeks of experience — you still sit at the table at 9 p.m. looking at Hexis thinking, shit, I still need 500. In the evening it was always the dance around the fridge, because everyone kept looking in the fridge — what do I eat now to get another 500 calories in? So cool. Yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, that's it. I mean — somewhere at 5,000, 6,000 it's slowly ending. As far as nutrition, digestion and so on — it gets really, really thin. Let me look. Here, Race Across Italy. 10,000 plus 16,000 kilojoules.

Björn: Yeah.

Niclas: That's solid.

Björn: In 24 hours then.

Niclas: In 26 hours.

Björn: So those are the kind of energy turnovers where I say — yeah okay, that's doable.

Niclas: But only put through 20,000 kilojoules in the week. That's a solid training week, I'd say.

Björn: Yeah, 20,000 in the week is completely humane. That's still sustainable. Yeah, but I think that's really a huge thing. And one thing I hadn't had on my radar before this year — what this study you sent me did — was to work more specifically with cadences, to generate a better stimulus partly through torque. Especially for off-road athletes — maybe a more targeted stimulus, because we also have to grind up 25% ramps briefly, where you only have a 50, 50%. If you've never done that — could get uncomfortable. And I think that's something for the next years — I think it's a small detail. You shouldn't overestimate it. Cadence training won't turn a mediocre cyclist into a world-class cyclist. Not happening. But it's maybe one, two percent you can squeeze out in a specific race because you trained it before. Yeah.

Niclas: I'd actually slightly disagree. I think with cadences you can effect really quite a lot in the sense of — do I make you a diesel or make you significantly more explosive, in terms of fiber recruitment. That's a whole different thing. If I tell someone who always rides around at 80, and I now force them to ride a 95 in base training, I'll have a really crazy adaptation. I've done that with many athletes over many years. We've talked about that before, right? I know, Simon Schneller —

Björn: Right, that's the example I have in mind.

Niclas: Right, when he won the World Cup in the US, we did exactly this game. Prefer to push a bigger gear and then the whole time on high frequency. And above all, where we already have a relatively high glycolytic flow, so sweet spot and so on — there we spun at 95, and that gave the mega boost. By the way, he retired.

Björn: I know, I've heard. That has to be mentioned. Simon feels like he's always been a pro, because he comes from this Bulls school and has basically worn the Bulls jersey since the youth categories — really a pro very early. But Simon isn't that old, right? Simon is around my age.

Niclas: Yeah, I don't know exactly. But it's always a shame when you see such good athletes go. Especially relatively young for an endurance athlete. Yeah, heart rate seals up. But also absolutely understandable. Cool career. European bronze, I think, from 2024.

Björn: You coached him, I don't know exactly.

Niclas: Then of course World Cup win was also pretty cool. So always solid stage wins, Cape Epic and so on. So always really a beast.

Björn: Just always been a top German rider.

Niclas: Always super. Really with a tearing eye I see him go. But absolutely understandable, very likable. Mega athlete to work with. A coach's dream. Few questions, just do. That's always been so. Yeah, definitely. So — he'll most likely do whatever he does now as professionally as he did cycling. We have a company at home.

Björn: Right, that's what I was about to say — he's taking over the family business. Yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, or I think together with his brother. And yeah, I think he had a brother. If I'm not totally wrong here. I don't know. Yeah, somehow I remember it that way. And so every customer working with him can look forward to the fact that this person is very accurate. Yeah, really keeps his word. Cool guy. Yeah, you can just say that.

Björn: Good. So — Björn, your personal highlight, so personal success, private life — is there anything where you say, boah, that's it? Apart from sport? Yeah, apart from sport. What was your highlight of 2025?

Niclas: Oh, I can't talk about it yet. Haha, yeah, I'll talk about it in peace later. No, but otherwise — I got two cats. Yeah, I've seen. They're cool. Yeah, I have two cats. Juri and Natsumi are their names. Now we can talk about cats. That's very funny.

Björn: I really have no idea about them, because we always have dogs.

Niclas: Yeah, I also grew up with dogs a bit. We had a cat here a long, long time ago. She unfortunately died at some point. And then — my wife always wanted another pet. I said, do we have dog or cat, dog or cat. And then — We decided on a cat or cats. Two cats. Ragdolls — anyone can google that. They're totally cool. They're actually not real — well, yeah of course they're real cats, but their temperament is the super chillers. They're a bit like — they also follow you around all the time, a bit like dogs. You can walk them on a leash. Really, it's totally cool. And they're like a fluff carpet. They're like a never-matting fluff carpet. They don't shed. Mega. And by temperament they're very relaxed animals. What I also find cool — also for my sons, they — there are nice studies on this, that cats lower your stress level — or generally animals, but I think especially cats — within 30 seconds by such and such percent. So if you — If you're a high-blood-pressure type, which I'm not, but I think fundamentally people who are on the performance line, in all of life, and then terrorize their family with it too. Cats are the answer. Everyone gets calmer. Yeah, I'd say that's my highlight. And then also that I — ...visited my oldest friend after over 20 years in Portugal, and we had a very cool time there. Okay. In his off-grid life in Portugal on a farm and everything very wild. No, not wild, but just very cool. Right. Okay. Yeah. I don't want to talk about cats anymore. I find cats totally cool. I just have no idea about cats. The great thing about cats is they're a bit like potatoes. You stick them in the ground and they grow alone. They're extremely independent. They also can't really be trained. That's also the exciting thing about cats. Cats are exciting in that they —

Björn: They always do what they want.

Niclas: First, A, they do what they want. You can train them a bit, but it's really hard. Clicker training and so on. If you even want to. But cats are very, very independent. They've only attached themselves to humans. They come from somehow the desert, Egypt and so on. And humans noticed — hey, these are really great animals. They eat our vermin. And the cats just attached themselves to them, without being greatly domesticated. It's not trained, they just live along, like a cleaner fish. And they're just totally nice. Next aspect — cats don't really communicate so much among themselves — meow meow and so on. They only do that with humans. And in a tone that reminds humans of baby crying or screaming. That's why we also totally respond to these creatures. When they go a bit — And they look so incredibly cute and sweet that you want to give them something to eat. Are predators of course. They get their own food? Right, if you die and lie in the house, they'll most likely start eating your soft parts, your eyeballs and so on. Dogs do that a bit less often. But cats still like you.

Björn: Even while they eat you.

Niclas: Survival. Right. Okay. So — cats. Cats were a big thing for you this year. And I had to visit them first too, and that was super. I had to drive there and do this first real research, I really made work out of it. I love something like that, getting a bit nerdy about it. And you first have to find breeders and this and that. Not that easy to find a good one. Got a mega breeder, very, very nice. Reminded me a bit of Marge Simpson's sisters, who always smoked a lot and have that voice. Also happened to live near my mother. And that worked out naturally. I drove there twice, also with the family. And then she has these incredibly cute animals. And yeah, then you pour a ton of money into it and now have three scratching posts in the house and an automatic cat toilet. So cool. I love that. Do you know these automatic cat toilets? No, I have no idea. It's a drum with cat litter in it, the cat goes in and then it rotates and then it falls into a waste bin. I also always get on my app — I see which cat was on the toilet.

Björn: No way, really? Your cat toilet has an app and you have it on your phone. Oh my god.

Niclas: I see, no matter where I am in the world, when and which cat goes to the toilet, and above all how heavy my cats are getting.

Björn: That's crazy. That's really crazy.

Niclas: They're not even expensive, they cost like 300 euros. You can also put down a shoe box with cat litter, costs 5 euros. But it doesn't smell. Zero stink. Mega cool. And look, now Jörg Hartmann is calling. I'll decline him again. And right, then I see on the app when the cat did what. Super slick thing.

Björn: Okay. Very exciting.

Niclas: So Niclas, now it'll be hard to top. Your personal highlight.

Björn: I can't top. But my personal highlight was once the engagement with my girlfriend, and then — huh? Say what? Yeah. You didn't tell us. No. I've told very, very few people.

Niclas: I should actually end this podcast now. Shit, that's you. Yeah, so be it. My leg was aborted, I always told people. Yeah, in —

Björn: Oh, don't ask me when. Yes — March. March that was, right. And then the house we bought.

Niclas: What you do when you're in your mid-20s.

Björn: I'm 29 now, I'm late 20s. That only works — I have to say, and I have no problem talking about it — only works due to a very fortunate family circumstance and because — We coincidentally — we were looking for a house because we had a really good family situation where we didn't need a classic bank loan. That's always a good thing. And you also have to say — in Saarland, house prices are still affordable. Not Munich. Right, not Munich. And a part — the house is somewhat bigger, but a third of it — my mother lives there, she basically bought that — or she lives there too, because it's a ground-floor small apartment, she doesn't need more anymore, it's very fitting for her age. Right, so many things somehow came together happily. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to afford it at my age of course.

Niclas: But I'm invited to the wedding, right?

Björn: Right, you definitely are. I'm excited. I hope you'll have time then.

Niclas: I can't promise that yet.

Björn: Yeah, I know, all good. But you're definitely invited. But there aren't really plans yet. So we know when we'll get married at the registry office, but that's just really small, and when the normal wedding is, the big wedding where everyone's invited —

Niclas: Niclas, that's crazy. You're really nailing things down. Yeah, sure. Well, okay. When did I get married? Oh, Björn. He's careful. No, I want to know how old I was. When I got married I of course know. Meaning — 14? Yeah, I was over 30. But just over 30. Well look — I'll now get married at 29. Yeah, my wife was 29. Aha! So very close, very timely. Yeah, next year. Yeah yeah. When's your birthday? November 28th. Ah look, I forgot to congratulate you.

Björn: It's not bad. I don't celebrate my birthday, and only very few know my birthday. Now everyone knows. Sorry. You have to — please don't congratulate me. I do nothing. I was cycling long that day and am done. So — Björn. Goals for 2026.

Niclas: What do you plan? Yeah, you know. Win Attersee. We win Attersee. Run a marathon. Yeah, what time? Under four hours definitely. Okay. So that's a goal that's doable if the bones hold. I've run a marathon once in just under four hours, I prepared for it six weeks. But I was fitter then. Okay. And otherwise — have my new kitchen installed. After the water damage from my neighbors was repaired. Great joy. Okay, when should the kitchen come? It should actually come in August.

Björn: But you haven't been working with some improvised kitchen since August.

Niclas: Yeah, actually since August I've been in some camping kitchen. Great fun. Oh, sounds really great. That's really fun. That really brightens my mood. Attention, a small realization. I have this beautiful old house. Great. And it's an old farm-type-thing. And attached to it is a part. And that belongs to my neighbors. And at least it's — I was taking down the kitchen, sitting, seeing the counter top and so on, and then — oh, the plaster is weird there. Hmm, water. And I — oh, fuck. And then I looked everywhere for where this could come from. Was on the roof because the chimney runs there, checked everything — didn't find anything, searched further, okay, who knows, set up a dehumidifier, a huge thing from my friend, who's a gas, heating, plumbing boss. And then nothing much really happened after a few weeks. Okay, that's also strange. We then of course investigated lines, insurance. And I had already asked my neighbors, do you have anything? No, no, no. And then I went over again and it turned out — it's coming from my neighbors. That was extremely uncool, because it dragged on so long. Then insurance came and so on, they put in new drying units, but we're already end of October, it dragged on insanely long. And the problem with a chimney or fireplace thing — it's just stone, and the house is really old — it soaks up like a sponge, and you can't really get it out. And just a drying unit does nothing. And until recently there were just a few drying units here. So the floor and so on — it's also all — all good now. It also ran under the underfloor heating. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, really full throttle. Three rooms affected. Brilliant. And — then they put in an infrared plate, and suddenly it really rocks, now this last piece too. And where — you know, all the rooms have been dry for a while now, that went quickly too — but just this piece of chimney, where the kitchen has to go, yeah — now it looks pretty good. There's barely any water in this device anymore.

Björn: And then —

Niclas: I mean, I've already paid for the thing. Our kitchen is really expensive. And you think — oh, fuck off. I've put so much money into it and the kitchen is still not in. But now the devices will be taken down, if it all comes together. But it's looking very, very good now. And then I'll have a new kitchen by mid-January. And I'm not there, which is totally great — I don't have to deal with the install stress and noise, because I'm on Mallorca.

Björn: That's fundamentally a good thing. Right. Then you come back and you have a new kitchen.

Niclas: That's awesome. Right. Those are two 2026 highlights. And then of course — keep getting smarter and better and be a super family father, the best spouse in the world, great son, great brother. The stuff you keep an eye on. And of course thank everyone who helped me on my path and whatever. Fundamentally — Björn is just a good human. Just keep going the way you always have.

Björn: Okay, okay. Niclas, now. Getting married? Right. Yeah, I'll do that. But that's not really a goal, is it?

Niclas: Yes, for us it was a real mission.

Björn: Okay, then it'll definitely be a real mission. Then I want — I'd like to crack a podium in a UCI race at some point, or maybe even win a UCI race. I really don't care which category, and theoretically doesn't matter which bike. You'll go somewhere to Sarajevo, Slovenia? Well — Without having to be on the other side of the world. So still with a certain — at least some competition. I have no illusions. If real pros are at the start, I know they'll take me apart. But I think if the terrain fits, I can definitely ride fast, and then it might work out.

Niclas: Maybe there's a race on the Faroe Islands.

Björn: Björn, now you're being mean. No, of course not. I'm thinking about — fast courses. Right. For example. Although — if it goes badly, I can't ride Willingen at all because of a date clash, where I might have to ride a race for Bike Discount. Nothing's fixed yet. But if it goes badly, I can't start Willingen.

Niclas: What kind of Bike Discount race is that? That's not a UCI race?

Björn: No, that's not a UCI race. That'd be something very big, prestigious in the gravel scene. So Unbound. They might want me to ride Unbound.

Niclas: But Unbound win is actually more important than some little Willingen.

Björn: Yeah, but I'm realistic. Fundamentally from the course Unbound probably also suits me, but I've never ridden anything that long. I'll also — that's definitely a goal — I'll ride the Tracker, this year it was Tracker 360, next year the course is only 335 km long. I'll ride that, that'll be my first longer ultra-race.

Niclas: That's relatively early in the year.

Björn: Yeah, May. That's definitely my first highlight I'm training toward, which I really have respect for. Because 11.5 hours is roughly the winner's time.

Niclas: Yeah, but you don't have to stress. It's not like you ride 11.5 hours at 400 watts. At the end of the day, you ride 5 hours of racing and the rest of the time you have to keep telling yourself, yeah.

Björn: I really want this, I'm doing this.

Niclas: Right. You can say positive affirmations to yourself in your head, or negative ones. I belong more to the negative ones. I'll sit down now, hate myself, and ride.

Björn: Does that help you? Because for me — I have to tell myself during it, okay, I can do this, you keep pulling through here, come on, push, man. Even if it hurts, you have to keep pedaling.

Niclas: Yeah. There's a book by some NBA coach, I think, called The Power of Negative Thinking. And I definitely belong more to people who come through the negative. It's not super, I know. But I come through from a defensive and bad-mood stance, I can do better things than when I start the day so positive and everything's great and I've made my bed and now the day starts. I'm more — yeah, I also train, always liked training in bad weather because I knew fewer people would be training.

Björn: Cool, yeah. But I can understand that approach. I also put that in my head, if I know, okay —

Niclas: Bad weather at races, super, I loved it. I'm a fan. It always did me good, and I could — or best yet, when I rode against people, always worked well — and I could torture myself well too. At a certain point I can switch it, and I work and have worked like that. When I wrote books and so on, max pressure and then just pull through. That changes a bit, I have to say. True. Over the years I've developed certain routines — for example I wrote a book this year, which of course isn't published yet, I still have to edit it. But that was something where I didn't have the pressure like, I have to have the thing done in X weeks, months — I just sat down every evening and said, I'll write for an hour and a half to two hours. I never used to manage that, because I always needed pressure. And now I've learned that I can also pull things like that off more structured. Yeah, I always wrote like that. But actually I'm more — I also like it when it's a bit chaotic and goes off and creative. That's maybe — I notice my strength is finding a creative solution and somehow ploughing through. I like that. I don't like — here's the pile of rubble, shovel it away, takes five days — instead, how do I manage to do it as efficiently and fast as possible, and there has to be a certain pressure behind it. Not the classic I'm lazy, leave me alone. And I also like being lazy.

Björn: My religion teacher always said I was a work-shoe hider.

Niclas: Rally teacher? Yeah, religion in school. Oh, I thought somehow you drove German touring championships or something.

Björn: Oh, religion, no. No, no, my religion teacher in school always said I was a work-shoe hider.

Niclas: A work-shoe hider? You have to explain that now.

Björn: Someone who, before starting to work, deliberately hides their work shoes so they don't have to work — because they first have to look for their work shoes and put them on. And in Saarland that's called a work-shoe hider.

Niclas: I can understand that in religion class, that you —

Björn: I spent more time outside of the religion room than inside.

Niclas: Because you got sent out?

Björn: For example. The peak was — the teacher came in, saw me, and said, Björn, I don't feel like dealing with you today, I'm going out.

Niclas: That's top. In pedagogy that's called threshold didactics. I also had a super physics teacher I really, really liked. And he said to me — I repeated a year, the Abitur year. There are reasons for that. He said, you don't have to come, you're good in physics anyway. Yeah, it was really like that. Then got my grade. But some of my classmates found that crap. And snitched on us both. And then I had to come back for three more months. And yeah, still had no idea how many points, 14 or 15 points in physics. Okay. Yeah — work-shoe hider. Actually, you should use that word at Florian Vogel's podcast. Why? Sounds Swiss-German.

Björn: Well, that's Saarländisch. Yeah. Okay, good. Then — what do you think we'll see in 2026 in endurance sports? Last question to wrap this up.

Niclas: Niclas is nervous already, he wants to go train.

Björn: No, all good, I have plenty of time to train today, that fits.

Niclas: We'll — yeah, what will we see? Um —

Björn: So you think it'll be even faster, higher, better?

Niclas: Yeah, has to.

Björn: I actually think the topic of aerodynamics will get even bigger. Especially material-wise — just the new Factor, is a beautiful bike.

Niclas: The one with that ugly fork. I already saw it at Eurobike. Is it UCI-approved now?

Björn: Yeah, it's allegedly through. UCI-approved and it'll be ridden.

Niclas: So you have a point — if we see the development, how low the CdA values are on time trial bikes and how bad the CdA values are on road bikes. Or the big spread, yeah, and also how little testing still happens — also in the WorldTour — also time trial bikes, yeah — so the crème, the frame, gets creamed off, and then would be okay for the guys, so it's worth doing an aero fitting. The rest falls behind, and on road bikes, pff. At Milan-Sanremo we ride 40 km/h uphill. Meaning 300 watts alone go up in smoke to aero drag at a 0.3 CdA. Maybe you could work on that.

Björn: I think that'll really become a thing across all cycling disciplines — that you just check more, okay, I should always sit well on the bike, and a good seating position makes a big, big difference, whether I sit upright or aerodynamically. What is aerodynamic sitting even? Because many people just think, yeah, I'll put a longer stem on and thereby I'll be more aero. Not necessarily. That people start — okay, I test it all out, pretty easy, and look, when am I how much faster and what makes me faster and where can I still save something. I think that won't just be on — sure, time trialing obviously. But just in road racing, I also find it crazy that this isn't somehow mandated by teams — everyone sets up aerodynamically on their road bike, the most efficient material is fought over to be as aero as possible. That there aren't clear specs, that people just — mega effort.

Niclas: I'd say with our app it's of course super easy, but it's still — yeah, of course, but we're talking about — we're talking about the best cyclists in the world. The guys have nothing else — very provocative, but —

Björn: Yeah, it's effort. Then just hire one person for that, then you have an aerodynamicist for the track, and then another aerodynamicist for — given the amounts of money there, I always think, you pay the riders so much money and that's justified, the guys bring awesome performance. But then don't tell me it's stuck on — just hire one more person who takes this job and sets everyone up well on the normal road bike too. And I think it'll just also in mountain biking — maybe not cross-country now, but in marathon and especially in gravel — definitely be a huge thing to sit even better on the bike and to sit well. And 32 inches.

Niclas: Right, that'll be the next marketing standard. Not standard, because nothing's standardized anymore.

Björn: I suspect at the next Eurobike that'll be the main topic. All the new wheels, all the new fork frames. Everything will go 32 inches, logical. Especially in offroad sport.

Niclas: Yeah, for marathon and gravel I can see that eventually.

Björn: You don't think cross-country too? Or do you think the courses there are too tight?

Niclas: Don't know, have to see. I saw a few things where people — sure, with rotating mass, that scales quadratically. But I don't think it makes a huge difference. And above all, you don't ride the corners that fast. So on twisty courses you can't ride that fast. I haven't ridden it myself. Have you? No. I have a few friends who've ridden it. I have to ask again whether it's really the game changer, as they say. From what I've heard, it just rolls dumbly. Yeah, it rolls. It's a mega straight run-out. Yeah, that's a killer. And I know — when I had my first 29er, and that was still a prototype back then. Boah, that was just crazy. You could suddenly ride up everything you couldn't ride up before, because you had a totally different contact patch.

Björn: And it'll be — I'd say — downhill. The downhill speed will be so dumb. So it'll really, really fast. And especially gravel bikes. Think about how you can hack downhill on a gravel bike with 32 inches.

Niclas: So I can imagine that someone with a 32-inch bike at the Epic has an advantage. Definitely an advantage.

Björn: Just over all these fire roads with all the hits, you roll over much better. Do you think, hot take, there'll be a team with 32 inches at the Epic? I hope so. Do you think Specialized is already rolling that thing out? Or maybe Scott?

Niclas: That'd be totally exciting, because it'd be the best marketing campaign. That'd be crazy.

Björn: And if they win, then you've sold the thing already. You don't have to do anything more. You can pre-produce 5,000 units, they're all gone after a week. Yeah, it's true.

Niclas: Or a total disaster happens, the rims break all the time or whatever.

Björn: Yeah, of course, that's the fun. It can also go really badly — or the tires aren't ready yet and they flat all the time.

Niclas: Yeah, right, they're not really properly sealed, the sealant keeps pressing out of the side. And the things fly off the rims.

Björn: Brilliant. But ultimately 32 inches is coming, and you've seen also with tire technology and so on, that advances so fast.

Niclas: Who has Maxxis? I think they already have 32 inches.

Björn: Yeah, Maxxis — I think this BMC you saw in Andorra, that was the first prototype that came to the public. I think that had Maxxis on it, and Maxxis seems to have them ready, all 32-inch tires. I suspect the big-name German manufacturers, the two big ones, probably already have something — I think you can name them. Yeah, Schwalbe and Conti will probably also have something ready. I hope for them they have something ready. If Maxxis has something ready —

Niclas: Then definitely. I think Conti doesn't really care. First because they — they don't sell their 5000s.

Björn: Right.

Niclas: They earn significantly more from car tires than bike tires, I think. Yeah, well. Yeah, I'm curious. For the Epic that'd be an exciting thing.

Björn: It'll definitely be cool. I already know how many people will get insanely worked up about it — no, I'll keep my 29er. Five years later they'll also ride a 32 inch. Ultimately — I'll super look forward to it, as soon as you can buy the first 32 inch in the shop, because I think it'll just be awesome.

Niclas: So — I have to sell my Epic now, my 29er?

Björn: Yeah. So, clearly, I say, we sell all 29er bikes now and then as soon as the first 32er comes, buy the first one right away. Don't wait or so — always buy the newest and best directly. I think that always works best.

Niclas: Yeah, I think you have to wait a bit, like two years.

Björn: Yeah, of course. The geometry will probably still be really crap at first. And after two years you have the first one sorted. And after four years, I'd say — probably in 2030 we'll probably have really good 32-inch bikes. The first — okay, geometry still a bit weird, handling a bit different, whatever. And then in four years, 2030, we sit here and say, this bike is it. And then there'll be 34 inches in ten years. How long have we had 29? Relatively long, right? Yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, wait. Think how long we had 26.

Björn: I'm thinking about when I rode my first 29er. I think 2009. Could be, yeah. Around then. Look, so we've been on 29 for a long time. About time something new comes. I find — that's the other thing too. If you look at the geometries of the 29er fullies now, they're basically — I think — somewhere maxed out. Sure, you can still go more travel. But probably now — maybe it'll go back to 100 mm travel. Yeah. With 34 mm stanchions. Yeah. And 32 inches. And in ten years we'll have 34 mm with 120 mm travel and then 32 inches. Ach, the industry will come up with something nice to get us to buy a new bike every year.

Niclas: Yeah. So I'm looking here. So — Gary Fisher actually already had in the early 2000s — here, RockShox, 29er Reba Fork 2005. Crazy. 'Gary Fisher set a major milestone in 2005 by convincing RockShox to produce a 29er Reba Fork.' Not bad. But 2.9, 2.10 were the first.

Björn: So let's say — somewhere between 15 and 20 years for us to play the whole game through. If, say, next year 2026 the 32ers start, 2027, 2028 we're all riding them, and then 2040 we get 34 inches.

Niclas: Here, Roland Bicherl from Giant Swiss Sun Tour Team said — 'When I rode the mountain bike World Cup in 2000, athletes suddenly turned up on 29er bikes from Gary Fisher.' So Gary Fisher had some in the 2000s. Took a bit longer. 2005 and 2006, 'when I switched from cross-country racing to bike racing and took to track on 29er.' So they only really got big then.

Björn: I think back then there wasn't as much know-how in the bike industry and not as much money behind it, and now it all goes much faster.

Niclas: WTB produced the first 29-inch tire in 1999.

Björn: Not bad. Good. Let's see. Good. Björn. See you. Wishing all listeners a happy new year. We'll try to record a bit more regularly. We're trying. And then next year — new news. Yes. Looking forward to it.

Niclas: Right.

Björn: Very nice. See you soon.

Niclas: Ciao, ciao. Ciao.