How Do You Win Badlands?!

Björn: Hey, this is Björn. Just a quick note before we start — this episode is an AI-generated English version of our original German Afasteryou podcast. The voices you hear are cloned with AI. Enjoy the show. Welcome to the Afasteryou Podcast, where everything revolves around endurance sports and training. Here, Sebastian Schluricke, Björn Kafka and Niclas Ranker share valuable tips and insights to help you take your performance to the next level. So, welcome to a new episode of the Afasteryou Podcast. Hi Björn! Morning! It's been a while since we recorded. I had, well, unfortunately, or actually fortunately for me, moving stress, and then sometimes no real internet for a while, just phone hotspot, so recording the podcast was a bit tough. You did one with Raoul. Mhm. And yeah, now back to... I'm trying to get my availability back together so we can find a normal rhythm again.

Niclas: Right on. Even though I'm the one who never has time.

Björn: Well, I'd say lately you weren't the problem, I was.

Niclas: Yeah, yeah, all good. So, what are we talking about?

Björn: We wanted to talk a bit about your successes as a coach. You did some great work recently.

Niclas: It's okay, I'd say. Why only okay? Last weekend was the German road nationals. But it was such a brutal mountain course. I didn't have the rider profile at the start. So yeah, all good.

Björn: Then let's start with the nice things.

Niclas: I have to share a story. You were at Eurobike, I was at Eurobike. Yeah. But we didn't see each other. Unfortunately. Yeah, exactly. And I already told you the story, but I have to tell it again because it's just so wonderful. So I drive to Eurobike. I take the train to Eurobike. First mistake. I thought, four hours of driving sucks too. And on top of that, I had to work. So I thought, train is the perfect alternative. I sit down and work. That worked half-okay, because the train got cancelled in between, then I had to switch trains and so on. Made it on time though. But with a lot of stress. Then you arrive in Frankfurt. I always forget how shitty Frankfurt main station is. I mean, it's pretty much a criminal corner, I'd say. It's just, things aren't really... Wild, what's going on here? Yeah, it's pretty heavy. This was during the day. Yeah, exactly. And then I arrive and I'm not at the right entrance, but somewhere out back. And then, dude, it's huge. I mean, this trade fair, this fairground is gigantic. And it was just empty at first. And then there are these two guys in front of me. One with a badly shaved leg, but you could see, they're relatively fit, and both wearing kind of monk shoes, and I thought, okay. And with this entourage of people, okay, who is this guy, the entourage wasn't that big yet. And then, get this, both of them had a Coke bottle, a liter of Coke in their hand, and were eating some grimy roll, kind of grabbed from a bakery, with... no idea, nasty toppings and so on.

Björn: Probably loaded with chocolate spread and salami.

Niclas: Full gas, full gas. And I'm walking along behind them. They chug their Coke and I'm thinking, okay. And then I notice, Gustav Iden and Kristian Blummenfelt going to Eurobike, because the Ironman was that weekend too, the one Blummenfelt won. Carb loading basically.

Björn: Yeah, and at a wild time too. 7:25. Whoa. I just say Coke.

Niclas: They hardcore loaded with nasty rolls and Coke. Yeah, I found that pretty impressive.

Björn: That's not bad.

Niclas: And then they walked in front of me and chugged their Coke. Right before they... Also nice was this entourage behind them. They didn't have entry tickets. That was wonderful too. And the...

Björn: Kristian, we need an entry ticket.

Niclas: And then they got one somehow. And he's like, yeah, do that, I'm just going to keep walking. They just left them standing there, didn't care at all, just kept going. I thought that was really cool too, very chill. And yeah, then I was at Eurobike. And I know Eurobike from way back, well, almost way back, it's not that long ago, Friedrichshafen. There it was always, it was wild, Friedrichshafen was terror. You'd arrive, parking situation, hell. Travel situation, hell. Frankfurt is significantly better. But you had this feeling that... In Friedrichshafen, cycling was just alive, it was so wild because it was just so packed and you'd run into someone every two minutes, it was just full, full, full. And in Frankfurt you have three or four halls, all huge, but completely confusing, because of these floors and you don't know how to get from 11.1 to 11-whatever, then you have to take stairs left, right, and everything is maximally confusing and... and then it just gets lost in itself. It felt a bit like the swan song of the cycling industry, because everything got so spread out. And there were also few... spectators walking around, or public days, as they call it. I felt like it's just, yeah, people just meet up. I met tons of friends and acquaintances again. The old Bike magazine staff basically reunited there, all of them no longer at Bike. And yeah, exactly, that was my Eurobike. With one laughing eye and one crying eye, because you somehow have the feeling that it used to be cooler.

Björn: Yeah, you have to tell me, because for me it was the first time at Eurobike. I'd never been to a big cycling trade show. The only thing I knew that was a cycling fair was Roc d'Azur, the bike festival around it. And at Roc d'Azur, every major bike manufacturer is there. Every major bike maker shows up with a big truck, displays their bikes. And at Eurobike, of the big bike manufacturers, it was Cervélo and Orbea.

Niclas: Nobody else there. That's it. My very first Eurobike, that's ages ago, we drove down to Friedrichshafen in one shot from Husum, North Sea, and slept in the car. And not with mattresses or anything, but actually in the driver's seat, the passenger seat. And then we had a butter pretzel in the morning and went to Eurobike and it was just brutal. And everyone was there, Specialized, Canyon, blah blah blah. All packed. It was just packed. You shoved your way through these aisles. It was just unbelievably tight and huge. And everyone was there. And especially, all kinds of people were there. Pro cyclists and so on. That was wild. And you'd run into someone you knew every other minute. Before, after, during the time I worked at Bike, you basically knew everyone. And that has thinned out significantly. The bike industry, sure, then at some point came the big media crisis, 2007, 2008, I don't even remember exactly, all the ad clients dropped out. And in the wake of social media and co., manufacturers eventually realized, wait, we'll make our own content, who needs magazines? I mean, tests, sure, you can always use those, but online media does that nowadays too, when they're reasonably independent, really well. So magazines, I see magazines, I'm a writer myself. I really only see one purpose for magazines anymore, and that's reading stories. I think great reading stories, cool reportages still have their place, even on paper, maybe even fused with funny video reportage and writing. But I mean, who needs bike tests in a magazine? It doesn't matter at all. There are great websites where I can look at the bikes, where I can also look at them in detail. And in a magazine, you have one page on a bike, with about 3000 characters, you can't say anything. So you can... safely scrap all that and I'd only do cool travel stories or great written interviews. That's much more interesting than some X bike. And the bikes don't really differ that much anymore. That's just, yeah.

Björn: That's really wild, right?

Niclas: Yeah, it's so crazy. It doesn't matter.

Björn: It's super marginal. The geometries are almost all the same now. The carbon, nobody can tell me there are still huge differences. Um...

Niclas: Sure, here and there. You see my new bike in the background. Yeah, I admired it already. It's a beautiful Cervélo S5. That's great. That's also faster than other great bikes in this segment. Yeah, so I plead for great magazines with stories in them, not crap tests.

Björn: Which are probably also bought a bit, here and there.

Niclas: No, I can say one thing, that was... At least when I was at Bike, that was really back and forth with ad clients, because there were also bad tests, things really crashed and at Bike I can at least say everything was on the up and up, when bikes were bad, then they were bad, end of story. But there were really few bad bikes. But there were these little things. You have to find differences somehow. And then somehow with Specialized XY, because Specialized is always expensive, they maybe didn't put the best components in the cheaper models. Was still expensive. And then it was written that, no idea, Cube was a bit better because better components. And then there was always stress. They'd call, this can't be, why does our bike only have 78 points and the Cube 79? Like, you just made it all up. But that was a bit of hair-splitting. You had to work out differences and that was sometimes difficult. Now, I have to say, I'm telling this from a perspective that maybe isn't quite right, because I never really did bike tests. That would have been hell for me, taking bikes apart and testing them and ride tests and so on. I wouldn't have been the right person for that. I much preferred writing reportages, that was way cooler too, you can travel the world. A month in New Zealand was pretty nice. And... Yeah, exactly, so at Bike that was really cool. I thought it was, up to the point I left, that was actually always a really cool thing and I left, I think, 2011 or 2012 I was gone. Okay.

Björn: Okay, so the basic topic was the manufacturers at Eurobike, so all the big bike makers used to be there. All there. And I thought it was wild, SRAM, DT Swiss, even though DT Swiss just introduced new wheels, they weren't there.

Niclas: Campag wasn't there either, I think. Also introduced a new groupset.

Björn: Campag wasn't there, SRAM wasn't there, DT Swiss wasn't there.

Niclas: Small note, they were all there, just without a booth.

Björn: That was sometimes well done by some manufacturers. I think all the new DT Swiss wheels were mounted on the Megamo bikes, for example. So if you knew and wanted to, you could check out the gear.

Niclas: Yeah, and a lot of people from these companies were there. I mean, DT had Jan Oellerich there, who's a very, very good friend of mine. He's actually from the same town as me, which is funny. He was the first athlete I ever coached. He's at DT and Julian Biefang from Canyon was there, well, a few people from Canyon. So actually everyone was there. The whole industry is there, it runs around Eurobike. But nobody has a booth anymore, because no idea what a booth costs. And nobody wants to stand there for hours. On the other hand, it makes a bit of room for smaller booths, which are totally exciting. You discover things you didn't have on your radar before. I mainly checked out some software stuff, which I found really interesting. And there were a few interesting ideas and also holding wheels in your hand again or some hubs. Yeah, exactly. That was pretty nice. What was your highlight, before we get to any successes and I get to praise myself? I'll do the praising of you.

Björn: That's all good. Oh, I have to say, tough one. I have to say transparently, I was there as a representative for Bike Discount and we were of course mainly with the distribution partners of Bike Discount. And when we got there, they always knew, okay, these are the guys from Bike Discount. And we always immediately had a product manager or sales manager standing next to us, telling us tons of great things about the new products. What I really have to say, I honestly wasn't a big fan of the Abus brand and their helmets before. But when they basically explained the origin story of the new Airbreaker 2.0 and the know-how and all the ideas they had, what went into it, when someone tells you and shows you that, and backs it up with data, then I have to say, I thought it was cool. I really liked it. Yeah, otherwise I have to say, I thought this new, but everyone looked at it and thought it was awesome, this new Factor bike. Which is going to be banned soon. No, supposedly it's actually within the rules, it just fits, the fork is at the limit, so it would be allowed.

Niclas: It's already being raced and I coach, well, I work a bit with Israel. At IPT or he has riders. And the bike is just really fast. That's awesome. Especially high speeds are interesting. And you can also see, I don't even know who it was. I don't remember anymore.

Björn: Yeah, at the Giro they had... no, at the Dauphiné the sprinter got a win on it. Or Australian.

Niclas: Yeah, no idea. Speaks English. Right. Nadav also rode it and he says the bike is just incredibly fast. Especially at high speeds. You can see in the video, he just goes to the front. And like, never heard the name and just wins. And... Yeah, sure, but Hope did the same thing.

Björn: Right, I think it looks a bit Hope-inspired, definitely.

Niclas: I have to say, the connection, the English with their track program, they've had this for a few years now, and Factor has a lot of English roots too.

Björn: I have to say, it's not an aesthetically beautiful bike where I'd say, wow, that just looks beautiful. But it excites me because, okay, they're doing something new. The headtube bearing looks new. Okay, they dare with the fork, and I always like it when there are brands... that take a new step, do something completely new, that polarizes a bit. Whether it catches on later or not doesn't matter at first. They try to do something new and somehow strike out in a new direction, where for example the big counterpole Specialized says, yeah okay, the era of pure aero bikes is over. We only make one bike that should be able to do both. And then I find it cool when a pure aero bomber comes back. Same thing, I also thought this Ribble was so cool. That came out a few years ago and they had this crazy cockpit and they sold the thing without bar tape, because they say bar tape is slow. We don't have bar tape. Stuff like that I find cool, because it's again... so progress, pure progress driven, and this, okay, I'm doing something new attitude. Setting aside whether it's an aesthetically beautiful bike, where you'd say, oh yeah, I'd hang it on my wall. But if it's fast, it's justified. If it wins races, it works.

Niclas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Björn: Yeah, otherwise I really have to say, I thought, it was a bit disappointing, because somehow everything, in quotes, or much of what you saw there, you already knew from somewhere. So if you're in the scene and have a bit of insight, nothing knocked me off my chair. All the new Shimano stuff, I already knew it, already seen it. Yeah, otherwise it was a cool experience. So, now we get to your praise.

Niclas: Who needs to get the praise above all is Andi Seewald.

Björn: Right, that has to be said first. Sick attack.

Niclas: The guy is just wild. He just rode into the European championship title, and dominantly, even though there were two Italians I'd never heard of before who were ripping around there. Like always, race in Italy and somebody's super fast. By the way, also at the Italian road nationals, did you see that? Really cool. Some amateur rider won. From the SWAT team. And they left all the UAE guys and so on standing. I thought that was pretty awesome.

Björn: Not bad. But can you, what most people are probably interested in now, you, or Andi became European champion. Did you do anything different this year? Did you do anything new, specifically prepare again, because last year, you have to say, Andi had this bombshell year where he became European and World champion, where he also rode for the win at Cape Epic, which just came across as so outstanding. When he stood at the start line, he won. And the year after that was, I'd say, also very good, but of course, when you come from a year where you won everything, then it's hard to maintain that, unless you keep winning everything. I'd say, but in sports, even among all pro athletes, that probably only happens with one Nino Schurter, otherwise it doesn't happen with anyone. So ups and downs always exist. But then, I'd say at least from the outside, last year, but he also had a longer illness.

Niclas: Sure, we really had problems, yeah.

Björn: We had Epstein-Barr. Right, so. That just kept knocking us out. But did you do anything new afterwards? Anything new, anything you saw, okay, we have to work on this, because that's what people are interested in.

Niclas: Sure, so we had Epstein-Barr the year before last and that was a season to write off, that was a really crap year. Then the year after, he still became fourth at the World Championships on a course that wasn't really his style, and still won a lot. Yeah, you can't forget, he's just a wild rider. Won Hero too and Grand Raid and all that. And then in winter we did heat. Did a lot. Altitude. May I ask, does he sleep in an altitude tent? Yeah, yeah, sure. The generator just blew up on us in between.

Björn: Generator problems, I know those, yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, exactly. And I think the big advantage is, nothing happened in between. He wasn't sick. Everything went really solidly. New team, all very well structured. Stuff like that, yeah. Maybe even a better bike. Better setup of the bike and so on. We invested time in that too. And those are the things, yeah. And then totally classic, we just had super timing and it just fits. With Andi, you can set your watch by it, okay, we do an altitude camp, then we do that, and then the events come, and we know we have a 3-4 week window where everything works. And that's how we prepare every time. And then he just rides into the European championship title, then wins the Hero on top of it.

Björn: And the next day just rides Raid Évolunat, where I thought, you guys are insane. The day after Hero, everyone's probably in bed, completely fried, no desire to do anything. What does Andi do? Rides Raid Évolunat and shreds through. And the Frenchman was strong too. Franz Claes, just a strong climber, was also there. Simon Schneller was there too, right? Was it Simon?

Niclas: Hans-Uli.

Björn: Yeah, Hans-Uli, right. So top riders were at the start again and he just wins again. Where I thought, holy moly.

Niclas: Hans-Uli just said... it was unbelievable. I mean, Hans-Uli, also really in shape, says, it was unbelievable. He's a phenomenon, he says. Someone shows up, has Hero in his bones, rides over there and rides the next day and wins on top. But Andi said the Évolunat race was actually harder than Hero. Yeah, wow. Really. You have a light effort ahead of you. Surprise. And I'd told him, I saw it, he entered it on the calendar. I'm like, why? Andi, you sure? He's like, yeah, I'm just going to go. It's around the corner. Cool. And then I said, but please be safe. Don't do anything stupid, don't crash, don't risk anything in the descent. And then he said, okay, all good. Then he says, it was mega hard, but he says, he wasn't going to gift the win to Claes. He wanted to give him a hard nut to crack, but it was apparently too hard to crack. And then he just shreds through. And now he took a week off basically. He went climbing. Did you see the pictures, he's hanging on some climbing hike. He's already with his girlfriend somewhere up in the high mountains, scrambling around. And then he checked out the World Championship course, and now he just rode a gravel race.

Björn: Yeah, won that dominantly too. And there were really many Tudor pros at the start.

Niclas: I don't even know. There were top people there. He texted me, nobody was at the start. It wasn't strongly contested. That was his statement. He said he just rode easy. Crossed the line with a 5:30 lead.

Björn: So awesome. Okay.

Niclas: Nice. But the course really suited me too. It just kept going up. And yeah, I think he just likes gravel too. It's fun for him. We need to optimize that a bit more.

Björn: So can we say, bottom line, when you also, what I usually have to hear from you from the athlete's perspective, stay consistent. So actually optimize everything around it, let's say everyday life, the lifestyle, optimize everything so that you can ideally get through your training as consistently as possible, without stress, cleanly, that you can pay attention to nutrition, that sleep is right. Don't overdo it anywhere, no crazy stuff, just calmly, consistently, cleanly train through, just to not get sick. And then you become European champion.

Niclas: Yeah, that's really, don't get sick, eat well, watch the weight, push intervals in at the right time, maybe a bit of heat training here and there, and then it works. And I find, when I look at the road nationals, the top 50 who finish in there, performance-wise, they're really not that far apart.

Björn: Did 50 even finish? I think 40 finished, I think. I was just going to say, I checked earlier, it was 48. I have the list still open.

Niclas: So not many finished. 41. 41, exactly. And they're really good. They're all good. And there are these little things. One went into the climb too far back, can't close the gap anymore, wasn't attentive enough, and so on. But then maybe you're missing three or four weeks of training because he was sick and you didn't see that. And we're moving in those nuances. And when many just push through, eat well, fuel properly and so on, watch everything, then you suddenly have super many riders who are super strong, and one little slip, one little mistake makes the difference at the top. Unless you're called Vingegaard or Pogačar, who can also break their hand or have their lung collapse. They still become first or second of the Tour. Those are phenomena. Although Seewald counts a bit there too. He has Epstein-Barr virus, can't train.

Björn: I was just going to say, didn't he become eighth that year at the Worlds in Scotland? Yeah, I think so. Avancini won, and he just became eighth and had only trained for two months or so, wasn't that it?

Niclas: Yeah, that was completely insane. We had a race before that and he shows up and just delivers, becomes the best German, just becomes...

Björn: You have to honestly say, in mountain bike marathon, he's been world top for years. Especially when it comes to alpine races, with Pace, he's actually clearly the best. And in Germany he's just the top. We have, depending on the terrain, sure, Baum is incredibly strong, when it goes more towards cross-country, more punchy, flatter courses, more pushing stuff, Baum is incredibly strong too. When Egger is in form, just a machine. They just push everything away. Definitely count, depending on the course, to the world top too.

Niclas: Yeah, or here... last year Simon Schneller won in the USA, right? Yeah. There too, right? You also have, Martin Frey was also fourth at the Worlds in Denmark. Stibi also always good.

Björn: Also won a World Cup in the USA.

Niclas: Right. So you always have to keep in mind that we have really many good riders in Germany. And then this year they all had a bit of... yeah, I'd say, after Epic, they all caught something. I mean, Jakob Hartmann is really out right now. Unfortunately, yeah. They picked up some nasty virus or whatever, that kept them busy for months. And it really tore Jakob apart. The season is over for now. And despite medical checkups and all that, stress ECG and spiro and so on, a few things just weren't, I'd say, seen, which is unfortunate, also from the medical side. And it really laid him out for a while. But fit, already riding the bike easy again. But we said, draw the line, because I would have, this would have actually been the year for Hartmann, because he's just, performance-wise, also...

Björn: I can still remember. Ultra-fierce. I was, I think I just got back home from the second training camp in Girona and then I think Seewald and Jacki were just there. And you said, dude, brutal. Yeah, yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, they went to Andalusia, right? No, not Andalusia.

Björn: Yeah, Andalusia they rode in the team. Got second.

Niclas: Right, before that they rode something else.

Björn: Which race was before that? Mad Epic.

Niclas: Mad Epic, exactly. And there they were already shredding, yeah. And they weren't really in top shape yet. And in Andalusia, Hartmann was already sick. And Seewald too. They were already a bit, not at 100 percent. And got second. Got second. Then I said, take it easy. And then they go to Epic and Martin Frey gets completely laid out. Then they all infected each other, except Andi. He somehow didn't catch it. He has such a wild immune system. No idea what he's got. And there they were done too. And Simon Schneller too, by the way. Something was hanging on them for months. Very good. Right, so

Björn: Yeah, the level is just so high, you really have to have everything covered, at least if you want to ride at the front.

Niclas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And there are a few other things too. Heat training, quick recommendation. We did a nice podcast with Michael Lieberson on it. Listen to it. And the podcast from Raul Seldran with me, that's also really cool, on nutrition. Definitely listen. Super exciting, also what... Adaptations to high energy intakes, how that takes time, how long it takes, train the gut, definitely listen. Yeah, exactly.

Björn: Should we give a quick rundown, because right now, Germany's in a bit of a heat wave, here in Andorra it's hot too. What are your main points when you say, okay, an athlete is either starting with heat or struggling with heat, what are your main points you recommend? Yeah, yeah.

Niclas: So if it's already hot, then it's already done. Too late. Bummer. Bad luck. So heat. First, it takes a bit. You can roughly say, 10 to 14 days you need to adapt to heat. You have to give it that time. Training during the heat phase... or during the hot days, I'd generally reduce a bit at first, so you don't completely run yourself into the wall. So look more at heart rate. And it's also normal that there's a heart rate drift in heat. As we all know, the body has to cool. Blood gets pumped to the skin or towards the skin. And we try to cool down somehow. If you also eat then... you don't know where the blood should go? Yeah, should it go to the muscles, should it cool, should it go to the stomach. And suddenly you have 20 beats more and think, you're not in shape. Also nice when the Garmin watch then shows your VO2max is sinking heavily, even though it's getting hot. By the way, it does sink. Don't forget. But under normal conditions it'll get back to normal. So that for sure. First you have to give it time. If you have time before, to adapt to heat, then go for indoor, classical heat protocols. So really at warm temperatures, sit indoor for an hour, nicely bundled up. Maybe not like Bradley Wiggins, when in the year before he won the Tour, he was really good at the Vuelta. And was in the sauna, trained in the sauna, which I find pretty gaga. That's heavy. That is heavy. But sure, and you're through that heat adaptation relatively quickly. You can do that for two weeks too, just sit down and do it. On that we did a podcast with Michael Lieberson, well, Michael did a great podcast on it himself too. Real episodes. Endurance Innovation Podcast. Right. Listen to it. There are very nice ones. And then of course classic stuff. Enough fluids. Please bring them. Enough electrolytes, bring them. And not necessarily, if you're not yet adapted, ride in the biggest heat, but maybe head out in the morning, so the training still works somewhat. On the other hand, if you know you're going to ride a race in huge heat later, then really expose yourself to it. So always check, if I've adapted, it's like every training, you start by working in isolation, then you put it together piece by piece. And if you say, okay, I'm riding a race in heat, then later it means I have to be able to perform in heat too, and then of course you ride intervals in heat later. So people who are currently riding the Salzkammergut Trophy, this crazy race that takes a few hours, you let them ride eight hours. And then they ride the last two hours sweet spot. For example. That would be a classic protocol. But you have to get there first. And the path doesn't mean, I ride eight hours and ride two hours sweet spot from the start, but you build that up over four, five weeks until you can do it.

Björn: So I think the most important thing for athletes first, you have to understand, just because right now, when it's hot outside and you go for a ride, no matter what your pulse and your numbers show, you're not worse. I got a few WhatsApp messages from athletes in the last few weeks, who say, oh god, what's going on? Nothing works anymore. And then I just look at the recording from their Garmin or their Wahoo and check the temperature. Yeah well, you rode the whole time at 32 to 34 degrees. So, what do you expect from your body? Totally normal that nothing's happening. Just take it easy. Write me, we'll adjust the plan. No stress. So first, heat is super challenging for the body and you can't expect your body to just go from 0 to 100 and perform there. No matter how good you are, anyone who's not adapted to heat, riding in heat, will have to make compromises in some form. And then I just think first, the fueling around it, so really drink enough, watch out, okay, salt enough, you need enough electrolytes overall. And then watch that you do it with a bit of brains. Sure, if we have a week where we say, okay, we have to absolutely get the intervals done, then look that you ride the intervals at some point when it's maybe cooler. And if we then for example say, okay, but we want to do heat adaptation, we're mostly doing base training right now anyway, then ride in the heat and steer the whole thing a bit by pulse. Ten beats more, 15 beats more is usually still okay, if you don't feel completely shitty. And then ride and drink and drink and drink. And then you'll adapt and then you'll see after a week, after two weeks, depending, you can maybe combine that with indoor sessions and heat. Then you'll see the adaptation, then you'll see more.

Niclas: Oh, Niclas, you're gone.

Björn: And I was gone again, but now it works. Now you're back. Okay, the WiFi at the hotel is making a bit of trouble, I think. Okay, exactly. So that I think, first, athletes have to understand that heat is just a huge factor for the body. And that... doesn't mean form is gone, you're in a bad mood or something, but it's just the heat, the body deals with it, and then performance gets reduced a bit, and as soon as it's cooler again, you'll have your old performance back or even be better, because you're adapted to it, and then in intervals your body can deal better with the developing heat, and then the intervals will even feel more pleasant or your performance will even be better.

Niclas: And you've gained more plasma volume, that's like heat training. Yeah, absolutely. Björn, anything else? We just dove into this so unprepared.

Björn: Yeah, we dove in here unprepared, because I'm riding the Andorra Epic these days.

Niclas: Right.

Björn: Who's all at the start?

Niclas: Frey is riding, I think, with Stibi. Yeah. And Georg is riding with Baum. Baum. Is Georg riding?

Björn: I texted with Lukas the other day because I knew something about the course. And Lukas said he'd come.

Niclas: Then they're riding. We also believe they're riding now. Georg had a bad crash. He badly injured his spine. So for a long time it was indoor training. And he's riding. And we wanted to, had to test now, last week a bit off-road, whether it feels good. And now we're riding Andorra and seeing how it goes. Who is Baum riding with actually?

Björn: If I saw correctly, on the start list Team 1, Buff Megamo 1, is out. So since Hans isn't riding, I think Wout isn't either. I think it's just Jose Diaz with the Spaniard together. His name escapes me. So I think it's only one Buff Megamo team there. Otherwise Hernsteiner is riding with his Czech. They're, I think, they could be strong. Yeah, also, but downhill.

Niclas: Let's see. They ripped it up at Alpentour. Yeah. No, my Perni was, when he had that one wild year in marathon, he immediately went to the road. Yeah. And was at Merida bei Rhein for a long time, right? Was a really good WorldTour pro, I think also. What did he get? Eleventh, twelfth at the Vuelta, you have to manage that first.

Björn: Absolutely. So already ultra strong.

Niclas: Really good. And uphill, it's just a force. The two of them are really strong there. Just came from the altitude training camp at Kütahya. Are really well prepared. They climb really well. The question is, how well do they descend?

Björn: So stage one is, I think, not really the problem. We ride the first climb up, then comes a singletrack. Which now has one or two narrower, tricky spots over rocks and roots. As long as you don't look left into the abyss and ride into it, that should be doable I think. Then the descent after is actually well doable. Funny thing, it comes after, you ride down into the second climb, there's a hike-and-carry section and you have to climb a real piece. We checked it out yesterday. You can climb up there, it works. When you're fresh. If I get there with high pulse and think, okay, I jogged the part before, then I think, oh, scrambling along the wall one-handed with bike in the other hand could be funny. I'm curious if there are people standing there to take our bikes. But if we arrive there with a group, how many people should be standing there? So I'm curious. Otherwise the climbs aren't super demanding, mostly wide paths. And the last descent is just like a marble run bike park down. It's fun, but a lot of brake bumps and so on with an XC bike is cool, but not really wild. We're going to ride the Queen stage today. There's supposed to be one descent in there that's tough. I'm curious. And then we'll see.

Niclas: And how steep are the climbs?

Björn: The, let's say, the wildest we had yesterday in the race was maybe 14 percent or so. So we rode everything in the 36, and it was very doable. So I didn't have to bend my legs anywhere. That was very doable. I think more... that you have to be a bit careful not to overdo it at altitude. Depending, even though the temperatures aren't reported that high. Up on the mountain it's already in the small sun and pretty warm. But the stages aren't that super long. So I think you just have to be good at riding fast. So because day one, I think, Lukas had a finisher time of around two hours last year. The teams were super close together. So I think it's going to be a real hack-fest. You have to be able to climb really fast twice. That's going to be the nasty part, I think. And otherwise, if you get through defect-free, that should work well I think. Yeah, I'm curious. I joked with Aaron today, because we also talked about tandems, we joked about whether we should ride Epic with a tandem at some point. That'd be funny for sure.

Niclas: Yeah, did I tell you about my tandem tour with my wife? Yeah, I think so. Where the rear hub got fried.

Björn: No, that... did you tell that? That your rear hub got fried, you didn't tell that I think.

Niclas: So we, super long tandem tour. I was up north and then we did about 100 kilometers with nasty headwind. And at the end we had tailwind and then it was running really well again. And then we crash so... it had been creaking the whole time. And I'd already taken the whole bike apart. I think, this can't be. What's going on? Greased everything and all that. At least, I can't figure out what it is. Just before the finish, just before the house at my mom's, we race over a cobblestone section and I want to keep pedaling and somehow, huh, chain off, what's going on now? Freewheel basically. And I'm like, huh, okay, look down, chain is on. And then I pedal forward, backward, and I'm like, oh fuck, something with the freewheel. Well. And then I look at it and think, the pawls aren't engaging the freewheel right now or the freewheel isn't engaging. And then you stand there at first and think, fuck, this is the real worst situation. Then I thought, okay, maybe they're stuck somehow. Happens sometimes, maybe not enough grease in there, although I thought there was. And then I tried to tap a bit. I'd had this problem before with other wheels. Then nothing happened and I'm like, okay, super. Then I had the bike, I took it apart. The cool thing is, you can do it by hand, unscrew, pull off the freewheel body. Like at DT, basically. Right, like at DT. I look at it and think, oh fuck, the spring of the pawls broke. Meaning the pawls don't extend anymore. I'm like, oh fuck. I'm like, okay, we have to walk now. About five kilometers somehow. And my wife then, no, you'll fix this. And I'm like, yeah, okay, and how? Can't really do magic. You, Björn, you'll think of something. So, okay. Top, super. So, what do I do? I look around in my bike bag a bit and find a piece of paper. Tear up the piece of paper and stick it into the pawls, so they stick out a bit. And then I say, okay, now let's try it. Then the pawls stayed up, I fiddled it in there, and we rode home with that.

Björn: All a piece of paper basically, so you didn't have a freewheel anymore, because the pawls were just stuck, you could basically pedal and they didn't disengage anymore. Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You just keep pedaling.

Niclas: Like a track bike. With a piece of paper we rode through the area. Awesome, that's some real MacGyver stuff. He was full on, right? I thought, wow. No, Björn, what are you doing now? Something will come to you. Okay, what do I do now? But that's pretty cool, right? That was good. Then I thought, oh shit, I need new springs for this wheel now. And I'm like, oh fuck. Bought them on Amazon. 5 euros, 5 springs. Was super cheap. Put them in, everything works again. Tip-top. Mega cool. And now I'm getting a new rear wheel built. Wanted to do that ages ago anyway. Small addition, Eurobike. I checked out a really cool hub at White Industries. Such an ancient thing actually. They've been building them for years, but they're just really cool. And I'm getting a beautiful 40-hole tandem hub now. And then my trusted wheelbuilder, Martin Kühn from Potenz, will build me a beautiful rear wheel for my tandem.

Björn: Perfect. Cool. Awesome. Then I'd say, exactly, good luck. Good luck to your athletes. And I'll see if I can get Aaron to do a little Race Recap podcast about the Andorra Epic. If he's up for it. Let's see if I can get him in front of the mic, because it'd definitely be funny. Good. Then, Björn, ideally we'll talk again next week. And I'll see that I can put this podcast together with internet problems.

Niclas: You'll manage.

Björn: Definitely. That's how we'll do it. Have a nice week.

Niclas: Ciao, ciao.