Jouet ou game-changer ? Gadgets dans les sports d'endurance

Björn: Welcome to the Afasteryou Podcast, where everything revolves around endurance sports and training. Here, Sebastian Schluricke, Björn Kafka and Niclas Ranker share valuable tips and insights to help you take your performance to the next level. So, welcome to a new episode of the Afasteryou Podcast. Good morning, Björn.

Niclas: Good morning. You're in the sun, I'm in the rain.

Björn: Is the weather that bad where you are?

Niclas: Catastrophic. Three degrees and rain. But it's slowly clearing up. As you can see, I have to retreat to my garden shed again. The kids are sick. Kids are never really properly sick, just half sick. And then they're just exhausting and don't take much consideration.

Björn: Okay. I'm in Girona at training camp. The weather's a bit better there.

Niclas: Good plan.

Björn: So, we're talking about gadgets. Right. I'm curious. We made a little list. I also asked around yesterday evening what people consider really essential gadgets. And we have a small list in our document. Should we just start with the... How do we begin this? So...

Niclas: So here on the list, you prepared yourself, of course, or ChatGPT prepared you. Exactly. It says, question for Björn, what is your absolute dream bike?

Björn: Yeah, that's basically meant as a closer. But we can just start with it.

Niclas: Sure, that's quickly answered. Titanium frame. Okay. Gravel, some kind of derailleur system, and then mechanical disc brakes. Mechanical, okay. Yeah. So you can always repair it. Exactly, everything that I can get myself without problems and anywhere in the world. And then I'm happy. I mean, hub gears are great, but I know if anything happens, you have no chance to repair it. So some awesome, stable wheelset, most likely aluminum. Everything that can take a hit, and if you're in India or Afghanistan or wherever you're riding, you don't want the thing falling apart on you. Although, those riders usually do run hub gear systems. But I'd always be afraid that if something happens, I'd be completely stranded. Okay, okay. And now I have another question.

Björn: Okay.

Niclas: Seeing how well prepared you are. Usually you get into cycling because you're a bit of a fanboy, because you see some athlete you think is great, and so on. When I first saw Marco Pantani, I thought, what a guy, the way he rides up the mountains. After that I was a bit hooked, and then came all the classics riders, like Peter van Petegem and whatever they were all called. Who was yours? Yours. I can tell you mine too, Missy Giove, downhill rider, I thought she was mega cool. Now it's your turn, yeah.

Björn: Well, back then for sure, early 2000s it was clearly Jan Ullrich for me, Bianchi jersey, my first road bike had to be a Bianchi, and mountain bike, I have to say, especially cross-country, was Sabine Spitz with her Olympic win in Beijing. I somehow saw that as a young teenager and have to say, that really... yeah, look, I was twelve, exactly, those were the two I'd definitely mention at the start. And let me say, I think her name is Katrin Schwing with those long dreadlocks.

Niclas: Yeah, sure.

Björn: She's still racing. Yeah, and those leopard print jerseys and always riding in the mud. And because she always rode in mud and I always thought mud was cool, I thought she was cool too. And when I rode my first races in St. Ingbert... St. Ingbert was always a pretty good marathon and she was always at the start there. And my goal was always to ride with her as long as possible. Yeah.

Niclas: Katrin Schwing, yeah. And her partner is Matthias Bohl, I think, right?

Björn: Exactly, yeah. I actually saw him at a gravel race just two years ago.

Niclas: They're always on Gran Canaria, I think. Alright, let's get started.

Björn: Gadgets. So we thought we'd talk about what the real essentials are, what every cyclist needs who, let's say, trains according to a plan and wants to improve their performance. What are, let's say, good but not necessary gadgets, along the lines of, yeah, if you've got the money to spare, go for it, but it's not super important. And what do we think are nonsense items? Stuff that gets heavily hyped, pushed all over Instagram with ads, but you don't really need it because it's more nonsense.

Niclas: Yeah, well, we can't say nonsense, or I think we're not allowed to say that, but maybe don't consider it meaningful. And of course we're doing this now, Christmas is around the corner, and for everyone who still has a few euros left over, or whose relatives and friends and wife or whoever have money to spare, girlfriends, if they want to get rid of a few hundred euros, here comes the wish list.

Björn: You really have to say, these gadgets, some are cheap, some, when you look at them, you can drop serious money on them, and it goes really fast. So, okay. If you say indispensable, what would be your number one gadget?

Niclas: Heart rate. Heart rate. Absolutely. A good heart rate sensor. I grew up with Polar and they're still good. So they're great. Based on the data I always see, I'd always go with a Polar. They're also usually used in the research institutes. I like them. I have the H10 myself, and I had to figure out that I always have to take it off those press studs, otherwise it keeps transmitting and then the battery dies really quickly. Big thanks to Holger Koopmann for the tip. Even as a total tech nerd, I hadn't really figured that out. And yeah, so, heart rate sensor. And really something you strap around your chest. Anything else is tricky. Although these armbands are also quite decent in some cases.

Björn: Yeah, do they work? Yeah. So I'm also classic chest strap, and I've been through all the brands. What I find a bit disappointing sometimes is that the lifespan of the devices, if you use them like we do, some of us daily, it's not that long.

Niclas: What's really interesting is that the older heart rate monitors or chest straps lasted forever. I mean, back in the day you had the Polar, you couldn't even change the battery, at some point it would die, but you'd worn it for three years. And I had a really cheap old strap from Tchibo. And I mean, that was the first heart rate sensor you could buy at Tchibo. That was somewhere around, I don't know, 1997 or so. It lasted six, seven years without any problems. And you're right, I miss that sometimes too. The thing was made entirely of plastic and you were probably also leaching some plasticizers into your skin. But they lasted a really long time. I still have some old sensors and I find it amazing how good they are. Some of those old things, the old Polar H8 I think it's called, or H7, I don't even remember. Also a thing that was indestructible.

Björn: Well, yeah. But definitely very important. I find, especially when it comes to training control and such, sometimes I skip the heart rate strap because it's just not working. But the power meter for me is definitely number one, because I always ride to power. Just simply a good power meter. Ideally one that measures both sides. I find Power2Max pretty awesome. But I've also had really good experiences with the new Garmin pedals, for example. They work well and are quite accurate. Yeah, just a decent power meter, maybe not one that only measures on the left crank arm and is just a small sensor, those sometimes don't work so well, you can basically roll dice for the numbers, but yeah.

Niclas: Yeah, definitely, power meter. Well, since I have many bikes, I'd always work with pedals. I've also had some built into the frame, but I always find with all the different standards, bottom brackets here and there, and then you've got, yeah, that always annoys me massively. And since I don't race and am not constantly leaning at 45-degree angles with the pedals hitting the ground, I don't really care. And yeah, there's, what are they called, Asomio or something?

Björn: Assioma, the Favero Duo, those are definitely really good on the road bike. The Duo versions are really good on the road bike. The only problem for mountain bikers, I find, with a pedal-based system, I've also had this experience myself unfortunately, you tend to whack the pedal body, especially on the trail. And if you wreck a 1000-euro pedal, that's a bit unpleasant. You can swap them at Garmin, but I think even there the pedal body costs you around 200 euros. That's why, on my mountain bikes I ride a Power2Max, and otherwise I ride my Garmin. They work well. Okay, your next one. What would you say is definitely still indispensable?

Niclas: Well for me, you've already reached the end. Those are the absolute super gadgets that you absolutely need. What I also find really, really important is good tires for training. Really important. For me that's the number one item. Because I hate bad tires in training.

Björn: Now I think we have to differentiate between good tire. So for you, is a good tire one that rolls fast and is aerodynamic? Or do you say a good training tire has to be puncture-resistant, have good grip in the wet, and last a long time?

Niclas: Yeah, definitely. We just had some internet connection issues.

Björn: Okay, did you catch my question?

Niclas: No, again.

Björn: Okay, for training tires, would you say they should roll well and be aerodynamic, or is a good training tire for you more like puncture-resistant, good wet grip, durable?

Niclas: That's the second one. Something like a Conti Four Seasons or Schwalbe Marathon. Whatever. I don't care how many kilometers I do. Main thing is I get home and don't freeze my butt off because I had to change tires.

Björn: Yeah. So... Same goes for the gravel bike and the road bike. On the mountain bike I also like to experiment with tires, especially what I can use well for grip. Exactly. But when it comes to indispensable gadgets, you really have to add a good isotonic drink too. Basically carbs. So... I just wrote down malto-fructose. That's the easiest. Order some maltodextrin, a pack of fructose on the side, and then just mix it one-to-two, so that you're always well supplied with carbs during training. Because these days, I'd say that's definitely also indispensable for training.

Niclas: Yeah, definitely. I'm not that fussed that it has to be some specific mixture. Malto is also absorbed wonderfully even in larger quantities. Sometimes you can pour some sugar in, although, teeth, right? At least eating. I'm already happy when something gets eaten during training. And yeah, basically, it's pretty cool that there's been a rethink now. And I mean, a bag of malto, five kilos, costs almost nothing. So you really have, yeah, definitely indispensable.

Björn: I find it absolutely indispensable, because I'm also always fighting with my athletes, or with many athletes, to try to make it clear to them that consistency in training with carb supply also leads to them getting better. And I always try to show this through the pros, that this development with the pros over the last few years, the reason they're all getting so much better, is definitely also because they're now all consistently supplying themselves with carbs and making sure they always cover their carb intake. That's super important.

Niclas: Yeah, it's really simple. If you consistently eat a lot and eat well during training, first, your training becomes much easier, and second, you get home and you're not completely wiped out, and I think that's the thing, not every training session should feel like you've been put through a meat grinder, because you might have another training session the next day. And if you run yourself into the wall every time and wake up in the morning thinking, I hope I can do this, you're torturing yourself again, maybe that makes your psyche tough, or at least the training wears on you. But with a bit of food, a bit more food, the whole thing becomes totally simple, or easier to get through the day. And that's the key. The goal is to have training stress that builds you up, and it doesn't have to be too stressful. So, food is essential.

Björn: Absolutely. Really enough, the longer the ride, the more you shove in, if you get hungry on the bike. Rather stop again, rather grab another pack of Haribo, shove some more in. Everything you ate on the bike, you don't have to eat afterward. Everything you eat on the bike is absorbed better by the body, gets into the muscles faster. That's why I think it should definitely be on the indispensable list, because it's really super important. And in my opinion, many athletes still need to understand that eating on the bike is just super important. Even if you think, I'm half an hour from home, I'm not eating that last bar. Everything you eat on the bike arrives better in the muscles, promotes your recovery, and you have better adaptation and will start the next session fresher. Always drink your bottles, always take all the gels you have with you. Exactly. So. Protein.

Niclas: You have that next on the list, yeah. Definitely, in whatever form. That you at least, I always like to say two grams per kilo of body weight. And you can consume that in all forms. Whether as powder, which is of course more expensive, as quark, as quantities of legumes, if you tolerate them. Whatever, but it's essential. You don't need to take amino acids explicitly, BCAAs or whatever, just a spectrum of proteins and amino acids as broad as possible, in plant form, or possibly combined with animal sources is generally absorbed a bit better, and you don't need to think too much about it. So, super important. And for people who can't manage it, just grab a shake, done. If you don't feel like 500 grams of quark in the morning, which I understand, then quickly down 40 grams of whey protein.

Björn: Yeah, I find, especially for anyone who maybe struggles a bit with their weight, increased protein intake simply helps a lot against hunger. And if you just, I don't know, manage to build in one, two shakes, maybe three, yeah, one, two shakes, at 40 grams each, you've already got about 80 grams more protein a day. And then you're just more satiated, get through the day more easily, and definitely improves recovery too. Exactly, so good protein.

Niclas: You've got supplements there.

Björn: Supplements wasn't me, you added that.

Niclas: No, I added that, okay. Nutritional supplements, indispensable. I added that somewhat because I... Oh, now it gets tricky, right? Ultimately they should be dispensable, but I often see that athletes can't manage it. I find magnesium is really something. At night it's not bad. And vitamin D, clearly. Or iron too, if you have a deficiency and it's been confirmed, those are things I find interesting. And those are, let me think briefly, those are basically the things I find really useful. And then you can also, there's this whole palette of things you can take. But I find that's already good. And if you have some kind of cold coming on, I also find it quite nice to have a bit of zinc and vitamin C on hand and take some. Demonstrably, the duration of a cold shortens by two days. And so, yeah, that's it. You don't need to take every little thing. But I think if you have a few things, when there's a deficiency, yeah, sure, if you spend half a year or the winter in Thailand or on Gran Canaria, you can probably skip vitamin D and take proper care of your iron levels. And B12, I don't know, by eating everything, so to speak, and occasionally getting a bit of meat on the plate, then the deficiency is probably... easier to eliminate, than if one even exists, than if you do it with a vegan diet, you really have to put some brain power into it, it's not that simple, and those are, yeah, it's a controversial topic, I'm not a big fan of constantly popping pills, but in a time where everything is always super fast, maybe you have to take the shortcut sometimes.

Björn: A phrase that stuck with me, which you didn't apply to supplements but to nutrition overall, was your example of Andreas Seewald. Where you said, he rides in training, he puts out so much energy, it would be like driving a car the whole time in sixth gear on the highway in the left lane. And I think, a car that you drive in the left lane the whole time in sixth gear has higher wear and tear than a car you drive at 80 in the right lane. It uses more gas, there's more wear on the tires and so on. And I think you can imagine it that way with the human body too, if you're doing competitive sports. You have higher wear, the body just needs more minerals and such. And that's why, in a healthy measure, you should just look into it, maybe with a doctor, do a blood panel, check, okay, what might I need? Are my vitamin B values on point? Do I have enough iron? How's my vitamin D level? Am I missing anything? And then you should supplement accordingly, because you can't expect from your body that you train 15 hours every week, watch your carbs and such, and then a super balanced diet falls a bit by the wayside, because you think, oh crap, I still need to get 200 grams of carbs in, just eat pasta or rice, and then the body is missing something, and there... So I think you should always do it with common sense. Don't just throw everything in, but have it checked, look, okay, what am I really missing, and then supplement accordingly.

Niclas: So I put them on indispensable, because I see that reality speaks a language that says, people don't have a, the time, and also not the will to really fully think about it, or you can also fairly quickly, so that's why I only mentioned these few, you can quickly search yourself crazy online, or rather, you hear millions of things. So these few things, and getting that checked by a doctor, and then you're somehow safe. And everything else, don't waste energy on it, it's always like a rabbit hole. Yeah, and above all, don't waste money on it. Right, so there are also just, many supplements are just expensive bowel movements and therefore skip them. So, indispensable, warm winter clothing, super important, seriously, pure hell, I'm very pragmatic about this, I froze for many years. And back then there wasn't such awesome cycling gear yet, and I wear ski gloves, I mean, there's great cycling gloves now too, but ski gloves are usually super cheap. And you can somehow, you wear them for two winters and then they're also worn through, then you don't want to wear them anymore. Then warm shoes, it is what it is. Warm shoes, there are slowly good ones now too. I'm even more of a fan of flat pedals and normal winter shoes, because there's a link there, it's made of metal, it conducts really easily. It's simple physics, you can't escape it. I did a winter Transalp once, many, many years ago. And it was insanely cold. We had minus 15 degrees the whole time and jokes like that. And we rode across the Alps for five days or six days. From, I think, Garmisch and then over to Riva. It was really heavy. It was really heavy. I learned a lot. And the guy who led it, he was a crazy mountaineer, had done Himalaya, Nepal, Mount Everest, all that. And it was a fun crew. They were all very exotic people. Really highly exotic people who somehow sought the extreme, and I was thrown into it by Bike Magazin, and you're riding a winter Transalp now, and I thought, can't be that wild. It was really heavy. Really like, it was so unbelievably cold at times, and you're on the bike for six, seven, eight hours, and then sometimes you had to duck into some café to warm up again or dry your clothes. And ski gloves, flat pedals, also really a good thing, although back then I had, Lake had, this isn't an ad, but Lake had a, winter shoe, made of leather, I don't even remember what it was called, MX, MK, no idea, and it was unbelievably good. Mine was a bit too big and it worked great, eventually it fell off my foot, I rode it for many years, it finally really broke. Everything I bought after that didn't have that quality. And they were all cut too tight for me. That shoe was awesome. And yeah, so that and otherwise flat pedals and some winter shoes. Simple winter shoes, you can buy them super cheap, doesn't have to be expensive. Waterproof, and clothes, clothing. I find, if something has volume, it's warm. And that's always the sweet spot between I'm sweating to death and I'm freezing my butt off. And when it gets really chilly, I also like to wear some kind of... Some puffer jacket, it's not a down jacket, but something like that, something thin, that works pretty well. And there too, stepping away from clothing a bit, slow tires, simple, a slow tire that doesn't roll, and you're slower, and you don't have that biting headwind. And then some kind of hat, a decent one that looks like a swim cap, but I find it usually works incredibly well. And glasses, large glasses, otherwise at the forehead and so on, I hate it when it's cold there. Some buff or scarf.

Björn: Ah, lovely brain freeze while cycling.

Niclas: Yeah, exactly. And then some buff or tube scarf at least. And then you're basically safe. Yeah, sure, then you layer your underwear, blah blah. You can do all that. When you're out on longer days, like on this winter Transalp, you take merino, because you don't have to the whole time... This plastic stuff stinks at some point. And yeah... That's about it. If you have a good shoe, you don't even need good socks. I rode there sometimes with tennis socks, I don't care.

Björn: I have to say, because I'm not such a fan of these winter shoes, I don't like it when I sit loose in them, but for that I wear, from several brands, but I wear from Fingerscrossed. Such awesome, thick merino socks. They make me unbelievably warm. I can only put them on when it gets really cold, otherwise my feet sweat and then I get cold feet because it gets wet. With pants I'm pretty relaxed. I could theoretically ride with leg warmers in winter too.

Niclas: That's not so bad. Pants, sorry, I have to jump in here briefly. I never wear tight pants in winter. It's too cold for me. I always have either tight pants on and some Enduro pants over them. I always want air pockets, because then it's warm. Air pockets are warm. I've had so many years... I mean, here in Munich it's sometimes so cold. And when you ride to work and it's minus 10 degrees out there, hey, I always have some Enduro pants over them. Done. Yeah, sorry. Now let you continue.

Björn: What I also find super awesome is a good base layer, a good tight-fitting merino base layer. Because I find those things just really make you warm. Yeah. And for a few years now there have been jackets with Polartec, they have a fleece inside, and outside they're windproof and water-repellent. I have two jackets from two different manufacturers, I alternate between them when it gets really cold, one day this one, the next day that one. So I'm also, I have to say, a fan of buying a slightly more expensive but really good winter jacket. You buy it once, I've had this one now for four years or so, it works, I put it on every winter. Ideally maybe even a color that stands out. Some kind of yellow jacket, orange jacket, red works well too, so you stand out in traffic. I find that really good. And something my ex-teammate Paul brought into play. I'm no fan of fenders, because I think they look crappy. But you need fenders. You have a dry butt, you get far less water on you. Even when you ride in the rain and have fenders, you're only half as wet as when you ride without fenders, because all the water from below doesn't come up. I have to reluctantly agree with him, even though I really don't like to. But a few fenders on your training bike in winter, if you're riding outside, absolutely indispensable, they have to go on.

Niclas: On the road bike, at least when we used to train in Hamburg or so, you had to have fenders on, and namely... Solid fenders that especially went really far down, we usually attached a piece of water bottle underneath with pop rivets because they didn't go low enough, because the rider behind you doesn't want water in their face. So you have fenders that go almost to the ground, which is amazing. You also had a winter bike, yeah, a real old beater with friction shifters or whatever. And then it doesn't hurt when the bike gets a bit beat up. And fenders that go almost all the way down. Then you can also ride with several people and nobody gets wet. And nobody has to ride left, right, sideways next to you. Wonderful. Also, you have a bit more resistance. Rides slow. So you freeze less. So fenders, definitely. So, we have a coffee sensor here, which I found just for fun, I saw it at Dan's, Dan Bigham.

Björn: I knew that, I said to Paul this morning, yeah, or I think I talked about it with Marek, he said yeah, he definitely saw it at Dan's, because when you sent it to me, I went to the site and saw, ah yeah, Dan Bigham follows him too, and then yeah, okay. That's where it comes from.

Niclas: We've known each other a bit now, and I saw it, I'm now, I don't actually drink that much coffee anymore, but I find this sensor really awesome. So, to explain briefly, I've forgotten the company name. It's a sensor, you put a drop in, and it measures based on the particles it sees. how good this coffee is and whether it's sour and this and that, and I thought that was pretty cool, because you don't have to, so how good is your taste, and I thought it was a pretty smart thing, if somehow, it's dispensable, we put it on indispensable for any coffee junkies, I thought it was very awesome, yeah.

Björn: I have to confess, I drink a lot, and especially since I have my espresso machine, I try, because you also said once, don't drink too much coffee in the afternoon, because it affects sleep, I try to drink coffee only until 12 noon at the latest. Yeah. But until 12, especially when I work from home and haven't been on the bike beforehand, then four, five coffees go through in the morning. Wild. And I think I could use such a sensor, maybe I'll wish for it for Christmas or something. Because I think you can have some fun with it. Especially if you often try new beans.

Niclas: Yeah, definitely. Who put on headphones?

Björn: Me, because I think, especially when you ride long base rides alone, I don't know, I'm a total podcast person while riding, especially when I ride around the open-pit mine in Cologne, the road is empty the whole time anyway, it gets boring after three, four hours. I find a good pair of headphones, ideally ones where you don't have too much wind noise, especially when you ride in frosty temperatures and the wind is blowing in your face the whole time and you have this wind noise in your ear constantly. It bothers me after a while, so a good pair of headphones, then some podcast, bit of good music. I really rarely ride without my headphones, I have to say.

Niclas: I also wear them, but for me headphones only work in combination, and now we're moving into the next section, namely the good but not necessary section, or medium good or whatever. I find headphones only work in combination with a good taillight that you pair with your bike computer. Garmin released something, this Radar. And I find it awesome. I find it really great. So if someone doesn't have a Christmas present yet, I can only speak about the Garmin device. I don't know if other companies have it. But it becomes clear to you that there's traffic behind you. And I find that, and you're not in that car-startle-second mode anymore, I find it very, very, very smart and it usually works very well. Sure, you can't rely on it 100%, it's happened to me too when a car creeps up on you. Or comes around the corner and so on. Then it's sometimes not so great. But on country roads and such, mega awesome. Really amazing. I'd almost say... It's a mix of indispensable. These days I'd say indispensable. Especially if I'm out long. Or if I'd be doing a bike tour. Yeah, super. Really great. Great product. Was missing.

Björn: What I have to say, I find these days a bit annoying for cyclists. In Germany, the taillights attached to your bike officially can't flash anymore. You can just get around this by buying, for example, the French version from Garmin. Then it can still flash. Which I actually find quite good, that, especially when you ride in twilight or in daylight, you still have a taillight on that flashes somehow, because you're more visible to drivers. And maybe, I fancy that they're more considerate, if you have a light on, along the lines of, okay, he's making himself noticed.

Niclas: And I think the Garmin thing, it also flashes a bit more intensely when cars get closer. A friend of mine said, hey, they're really afraid of getting a speeding ticket when they don't fully check it. And I think the Garmin, I don't even know if mine does that, I rarely ride behind myself, right? I think it just gets brighter. So it gets a bit more intense. But the flashing in any case, yeah.

Björn: Okay, then probably the one that by now almost everyone in competitive sports uses or uses something similar, a Whoop, whether it's a Whoop, an Apple Watch, a Garmin, so some wearable, let's say, that tracks your sleep, tracks your HRV, tracks your heart rate, whatever.

Niclas: Yeah. How do you see that? I think it's good. So definitely, especially for people who are a bit grouchy and who wake up and are in a bad mood, and the rest of humanity has to live with them, a decent sleep tracking can make sense, to see, hey, you're actually only sleeping four hours. Come on, work on that. I don't think that's bad at all. The HRV measurements are sometimes so-so. There's a nice app called HRV for Training by Marco Altini. I don't find that bad either. It also only works with the phone. You put your finger on it, a light turns on, your lamp, and then it measures the changes in the color of your blood, and then you can do an HRV measurement through that. But I find sleep tracking is actually a bit of a gamechanger, that you have a feeling for how much you're sleeping, was that good or was that not good. And I find they've gotten pretty good.

Björn: Yeah, so I have to say, fundamentally, I think these trackers are definitely good. The only thing, when you have athletes who interpret too much into something like that, I find that really tricky, because... When athletes start saying, yeah, my Whoop value isn't good today, I can't do the intervals, and I ask, well, how do you feel? Yeah, I don't actually feel bad. Yeah, so try it. Just try the intervals anyway. So it's always a bit, I think you have to teach the athlete a bit of sensitivity. One probably needs it, so they sleep enough. The others probably sleep enough, but then freak themselves out because they saw, oh no, my Whoop score wasn't good today, it says my deep sleep phase wasn't good, and then they stress about their sleep, that's also not good. So I think it's very athlete-dependent, and with some I say, yeah come on, please take that thing off, it's not helping you. You're just driving yourself crazy with it. Things were better before. And with others I've also said, hey, it might be that if you go to bed at 12 and get up at 5 because you have to go to work, you're probably not getting enough sleep. And when you make it clear to them with a tracker, hey, you're only effectively sleeping four and a half hours a night maybe, or five, and you should really be sleeping at least seven, maybe, if things are going really well, more like eight, then it makes sense again. So I think you always need a bit of sensitivity, have to assess the athlete a bit, to give them a good recommendation.

Niclas: Yeah, a long time ago I had one of those things for the mattress. I found that actually sensationally good. The company went bankrupt, I think, unfortunately. It was a slightly thicker, yeah, about a 10-centimeter-wide strip, you laid it down. It recorded the heart rate, also your sleep behavior, and respiratory rate, and everything, and it did it really well, and I thought it was cool somehow, but of course it's not as nice as a watch or a ring or some bracelet. that you can carry around everywhere, you don't want to always lug such a thing around, like a strap, yeah, and it was thin, yeah, it wasn't that bad. I took it with me once to Gran Canaria and to find out, on Gran Canaria I naturally sleep much, much better, because I more or less, of course I worked there, but it had more of a vacation vibe, and so on. Yeah, so pretty good, you shouldn't put everything on the gold scale, but to get a trend, I find it pretty cool. So, next point.

Björn: I think I wanted to say, every athlete should maybe just reflect, before buying something like that, on how they react to such data. Yeah. If you let yourself be influenced by something like that, I'd be careful with it. If you can just, let's say, view it logically, analytically, then it probably does make sense, because you can actually improve your sleep here and there. When you experiment, okay, do I sleep better when the room is completely darkened? Is my room maybe too warm? Do I need earplugs while sleeping? Things like that, right?

Niclas: So... That can really help. Fundamentally, and maybe we need to briefly say this, everything we collect here, and all these gadgets, they're mostly devices that record data somehow. And I always see it this way, what are you going to do with it? That's always the big question. And it's like with problems. I mean, you now have this data and don't actually know what to do with it. And that puts you in front of a problem. And there are different solution processes, or problems, or rather data quantities, how do I deal with this? You know, there are simple problems that each of us can solve ourselves. So, what am I? Plain and simple, 20-minute test times 0.95 threshold. So, wow, now I have a threshold. That's a simple problem-solving strategy, whether good or bad is another matter. Then there are complicated problems that you can still solve on your own. Like calculating VLamax and then building a metabolic simulation from it with the equations that Mader created. Those are more complicated problems, but they're solvable. A single person can solve them. Right. That's where we are now. And now we come to an area, there are complex problems. Complex problems or complex questions are mostly only solvable as a team. And I think sleep, with all the other things we have, those are only team-solvable tasks anymore. Meaning, you have a coach, or you have maybe also a... an app or an AI that monitors all of that, and says, okay, here, slow down, you can't do anything now. That exceeds the horizon. And that's just like as a coach, if, let's say, you work with a World Tour team, I work a bit as a consultant and so on, and then you have nutritionists, and then you have a chef, and then you have performance here, and then you have Head of Performance, and then you have this and that, and Head of Innovation, and you just notice, there are seven, eight people there. Or maybe even ten people, who are only responsible for tracking the performance of the athletes and somehow making sense of it. And those are complex questions, how do I get the athlete fit. That's why it's also naive to believe, that as a coach you can say, hey, I know everything, and that's how we do it. That's always a stripped-down version. Which is why it's also the case for me, that you... You always want to talk with athletes, you always want to talk with coaches, you always talk with scientists, just to get feedback, because only looking at a study is a bit thin. You have to really engage intensively with people who also live in practice. And those are these complex problems, and they're solvable, when you have the time, and above all have people around you who are knowledgeable about it. And then there are the last problems, those are chaotic things. That's stuff like races, Tour de France, Mountain Bike World Championships, whatever. There are so many questions that interlock with each other, that everything becomes chaotic. And you try of course to build some plan, or build intervals, so that you know, okay, here we attack, and so on. But ultimately you're trying to solve something chaotic that's unsolvable. And there you also have to, as a... person who's working on it, you also have to resolve it a bit and say, okay, we tried our best to solve something, but at the end of the day it's unsolvable, because we forgot something again, then you take that, chaotic problems you actually only take with you to generate a learning curve, so that next time you're a bit better prepared. So, roll backwards. The more data there is, the more questions there are too. And like you already said, if something makes someone nervous, then it's better to say, hey. Either, well, you're my coach, you judge it, I rely on you, that would be one step, or I have a sensible AI that monitors all of it, and I trust it too. And, if I'm already someone who questions everything a hundred times, and with every new study and every new training says, oh, now we have to do this, and now we have to do that, and, and, and. Phew, forget it. And you have to live with the fact that everything we know and learn and so on can be completely different again in a fraction of the time, in a few months. I was talking with an athlete yesterday, I thought, now here comes the training, that would have been last year already. No, of course not. I'm developing too. Each time it's not always the same thing. That would be nonsense. It has to somehow... The athlete is developing, the body is developing, the science is developing. And so, what I wrote down five or six years ago, or even two years ago, I probably wouldn't write that way anymore. Yeah, that's how it is. Absolutely. So, now we've strayed.

Björn: I think that was already very important, especially on this topic of wearables, and maybe in general on all this data collection, because there are still a few more gadgets coming, to have said that, because sometimes less is more. Because if you think back now, in the old days... they didn't record all that. Back then they didn't ride with power meters, they didn't have a heart rate strap, they just went riding 30 hours every week, didn't even eat anything, and still got relatively fast somehow. Sure, maybe they took the odd little substance, but what I'm just trying to say is, it also works when you use less, and for example, I'll say simplistically, only use the real basics, and leave all the other stuff out. Then you can still cycle unbelievably fast and have fun.

Niclas: An incredibly good body awareness. And maybe even have more fun. Good body awareness. That's actually the decisive thing that really, really good pros manage. You don't tell them, now we're riding 250 watts base. They ride base and say, I just know how it feels. And if it feels crappy today, then I know, today is a crappy day. Then I ride slower. And there are a few of those. And on one hand, all the data can give you feedback and say, today isn't my day. On the other hand, it can also dull you a bit, so you're only focused on numbers and say, okay, oh, something doesn't fit, five beats too much, something's off, and so on, instead of saying, hey, who gives a damn, yeah, I'm just riding today. So, and that's the healthy balance between today's not going, because I just don't feel good. And today's actually going, even if the data says something else. You have to kind of work that out with yourself. And there, good body awareness isn't bad. Also to say sometimes, I'll just ride, not look at my pulse, not look at the data, and just look at the end what happened. Because there too, if I stress myself into data... And I see, the heart rate is a bit too high. I'm also a candidate for that. When I go jogging and I have a slight drift while running, I think, oh damn. Then the heart rate automatically goes higher. I don't even need to talk about that. But when I look at zero, then, oh wonderful, all super, pace is right, pulse is right, and so on. So just sometimes say, I'm not looking. There are also enough people who don't wear it at all in races, because it makes them nervous and bothers them and whatever. So I understand.

Björn: There was also some coach here with Bumblebee mode. And that's also something. There are athletes, it's great if they look at wattage values during a race, because they maybe even need it, to push themselves. And then there are athletes, when they look at the wattage values, they think, I'm riding way too many watts, I'll never hold this, because in training I only hold it for eight minutes. Why am I going to last ten minutes here now? But if they hadn't looked, and just concentrated on the course or on the back wheel of the rider in front, they would have ridden the ten minutes. I think, what you said, body awareness. Athletes should try more, first of all... to listen inward, okay, how do I feel, how's it going, and maybe then use a wearable and look, okay, what's it saying? Next point. I find, I'm a big fan of trainers.

Niclas: Yeah, I also find trainers good. I of course also have a few people who hate trainers. It doesn't matter if it's snowing or raining, they ride outside anyway. But I think you can work very time-effectively. Train wonderfully, and above all you can play around with cadences and so on, and it's no longer like before, where you were on your, I mean, you had three rollers, and then you sat on it for hours, and stared at the wall, and maybe watched some music, and could maybe watch on TV, these days with all the gamification. Whoever likes it, can happily do it, and you can program all sorts of things into it. I mean, when the first Kickrs came, when you could suddenly load data into it and simulate races, it was totally crazy. And so, I also find it good. Testing, that's a good thing.

Björn: So I have to say, everyone who... Everyone who works a lot and also wants to train decently in winter, should get such a trainer. So you just set yourself on the trainer for an hour in the evening. Is super effective.

Niclas: Good, that went quickly. Then we have a... Yeah, sure. Either you hate it or you do it. Um... NIRS sensors, stuff like Moxy and so on. Wow, I'm totally torn about these. I find them, I wouldn't even say good, but not necessary. I'm so, I'm even, I'm really divided, because what I see in the data, sometimes you think, wow, cool, correlation, you really see something there, and I haven't yet, yeah, I'm there, sometimes I think, it's cool, and sometimes I think, somehow, yeah, that doesn't quite fit. I can't, haven't quite found the 100% use case yet. Maybe, that you say, I always try to have a high oxygen saturation in the muscle when I ride base, and so on. But I'd love to see a test group of 60 people, 30 split, who all have such a thing. One works, the other doesn't. And then let them ride by their max saturation and the others just ride by power, to see if anything happens. I'm still so conflicted. Nothing's really convinced me yet.

Björn: I find, I have one or two athletes who have it, who use it, especially to adjust intervals here and there a bit. So to see, okay, sure, you couldn't ride the next set, because you still didn't have oxygen in your muscle. The first set maybe was so hard that you desaturated completely. Then we make the break a bit longer and then it works. Or we dial down the intensity of the sets a tiny bit, really just, and then it also works. To fine-tune there a bit, I find that good, but... Is that the gamechanger? For that the thing's really expensive. Then you also have to always place it the same. So maybe for the last 0.5 percent, 0.1 percent it makes sense. But for that it's actually, I find, too expensive, that you'd really find big application. Yeah, so I think... That's why it might be good, yeah, but you definitely don't need it.

Niclas: No, you don't need it. I think too, when you have a bit more data and even better cases where you can really use it, you have to also maybe work a bit more on the use case as I said, and then I could imagine, that that... Really has value, exactly like you said, adjusting intervals, I also did that back when we were doing 40-20s and similar, yeah, a bit lugging the Spiro around. Above all you'll see what's happening in the muscle. We did that already a bit and reasonably successfully. Yeah, so you don't need it. Nice to have. Yeah, exactly. Power meter for running, Stryd.

Björn: Mhm.

Niclas: I'm not into it.

Björn: I'm out.

Niclas: I don't know much about running. So there are many ways, the performance... First, we're not measuring anything there, but rather calculating something usually. There were, I think, insoles that really worked with pressure sensors, but you couldn't run in them, because they were way too thick. But I find... Some of these sensors are interesting in that they, well, they give you a power output, however good it is, and sometimes it also goes to pot, because if you're going uphill and have a relatively high lift output, or relatively much bounce, then they don't pick it up properly, and then they overreact a bit when you run downhill and so on, especially on technical terrain. But above all, they record your running motion in a fairly interesting way. And I find that's a pretty cool thing. They do that really well. So what I've seen from the data, for example now from the Stryd, from this Duo-measurement, I found it pretty cool. Where pains might occur in the athlete or where there were already problems, you can see it in these movements, and then you can counter-steer against it. I find that really interesting, so you discover patterns and then all this ground contact time, blah blah, well, the watches also record that already quite well, but... I don't think they're bad. So I have to say, I have an older one myself of course, and I look at the data pretty well, because the GPS signal is sometimes so horrendously bad when running. And you're running, if I'm running along the Isar here, there are a few trees and it's cloudy, then you suddenly have somehow a bit... 6:30-pace and think, that can't be right. I think somehow now faster. And then you see, you look at the Stryd thing, and see, okay, the watts say something totally different. So that's why I'm there, I don't find them bad. I find, if you have a few euros left over, you don't necessarily need it, but not bad, yeah.

Björn: Exactly. Alright. Then I actually think, next point, under good but not necessary, I really like them, compression socks.

Niclas: Yeah.

Björn: Especially for long car rides, for, I don't know, a flight to South Africa, you sit two hours on the plane or even yesterday the travel day here, I actually wear them almost always, because you don't have... Yeah, so I don't have such heavy legs the next day. I think it's totally awesome. There are also, if I saw correctly, studies on it. I even did a bit of research last night. For during exertion there are apparently no studies that prove anything, that it works. For recovery yes, so muscle soreness reduction and such, not. Is, as far as I can say, proven. So to wear compression socks for recovery does make sense. And I think alone, that when you fly long and so on, not all the blood pools in your legs, that it circulates a bit more, that the body is supported a bit. Makes, I find, totally sense.

Niclas: So it's already super. I also still have a pair I've had for, no idea, ten years. No, I think even longer. It works great. Was a cheap investment. I also still have a pair of pants, which I, whoa, I haven't worn them in ages, but when I flew to New Zealand or so, I wore them. Yeah, there too, I think it helped. Also when I drive long distances by car, I think it helps. The legs don't feel as crappy. So, doesn't hurt, is cheap, lasts forever. These things don't break either, because the material is so stiff, or so tightly woven, woven, that they really work well.

Björn: So I really wear them.

Niclas: Yeah.

Björn: Um, yeah, I find the next point is really good too. Takes a bit of tension out of the muscles. It's not as good as a massage. Yeah, but especially, I find for example at training camp, you sit on the bike five hours every day, do a bit in the evening for your muscles, a bit of mobility maybe. So in the evening a quarter-hour, once, slowly roll out the legs from bottom to top. I find it totally good. After that maybe another quarter-hour stretching the legs a bit. Definitely helps me to not limp out of training camp after one or two weeks with back pain or something.

Niclas: So let me say, the investment is super low. That's why I always say, you can buy one. I'm too lazy. I don't feel like it. Occasionally I do it. Yeah, sometimes I do my spine, or legs. It always hurts. And I'd rather follow along with a few yoga videos. Or if I, good, that would be an investment that's relatively high. I still have a Compex lying around. I like slap it on my legs and just let them vibrate. Yeah. That also has a higher use case when you're sick. We don't have that on the list, by the way. Good, but not necessary. I find electrostimulation devices, with which you can really run your muscle into the wall, if you're for example sick or similar. I find, that's a really cool thing. So, the black roll we can leave on the list. I think it's good.

Björn: Yeah, so I also find the black roll, like you said, for the price and if you actually use it, just buying the thing and standing around it doesn't do much. And usually, when you do it, it's already also actually unpleasant. But I think it definitely brings something.

Niclas: Yeah, isn't that good? Hey, and even if that's all it does, then it already does something. If you then feel super on top of that, you recover better too.

Björn: Yeah, I also wrote down yoga strap, because I find it pretty good for stretching too. You can also just take a towel. I mean, I know we used to always just take a towel at club athletic training, wrap it around the foot. Works just as well. Yeah, exactly. Yoga strap. Sweat. What I then... Yeah, I think, you should... So as I said, is good, but dispensable. If you have athletes who often have problems with cramps, or get problems with them late in the race, I think you can look at doing a sweat test. to see, okay, how much salt do you lose? Do you lose way too much or significantly more than, let's say, the normal person? Because then you can counter relatively easily and just put a bit more salt in your mix, especially for a competition or when it's hot outside. And then things like cramps, or that the carbs don't arrive as well in the muscle anymore, because you have too little salt in your body, um,

Niclas: So first, funny story from the World Tour, everyone's doing sweat tests, I thought great, turned out that one athlete I then worked intensively with, loses extremely much. Yeah, we knew, for training it's good, in the race everyone gets the same bottles. Yeah, you'd think, whatever, I get the crappy bottles the whole race. Good, then it was somehow tried to be solved differently. Yeah no, so it can definitely make sense, if they're valid. And I don't even know what, Precision Hydration does something like that. Yeah, there are sensors for it. One from England and one from the USA. I don't know how accurate they are. I now have an athlete who's just testing them. If I know more, I'll say something. But that's also just one person who's tested them. Still, in the wake of climate change it can already make sense, to know, how much... Yeah, you lose. So not just the pure quantity. That can also sometimes be pretty interesting to know, okay, how much water am I actually losing? And then of course also the composition. What's actually in there and how much should I replenish? Yeah, definitely useful.

Björn: I always remember the videos of Lionel Sanders, who did that relatively easily. He sat on the trainer, weighed himself before, weighed himself after, looked how much he drank. Then you at least get, it's a type of sweat test, but at least you get an idea of, okay, if I ride for an hour, how much fluid am I losing? And then you can at least roughly calculate how much salt that is. And if you're someone who sweats incredibly much, yeah sure, you probably also sweat... you can't say exactly, but probably more electrolytes out too, and then you also have to accordingly shove more in. Especially if you ride a lot of trainer, or so. So I notice on myself, that I definitely lose a lot of salt. Especially when we do heat training or so, I have to watch that I definitely take enough in again. Yeah.

Niclas: So I have for that, we'll bring this back to the platform, I've built a calculation model for that, at least for fluid loss, and in the field so to speak, so you have the temperature, you have the humidity, so the wet bulb temperature, then you have body fat, body surface area, that's important, because at some point, when it gets hot, blood gets transported to the body surface, especially to the legs. And if you have a bit more body fat there, ideally, you know, there are also people where it distributes more to the upper body, so how much heat can we get out. Then it's also always like, heat capacity, so who tolerates more, how much heat can the muscle somehow transport away, how much fat. And then of course the performance that the athlete has, and then also the theoretical speed, that's generated. Depending on the profile, you can then calculate, how much fluid someone loses, and I made that I think until now only as Excel, but that's actually a more complicated problem. We'll bring that back to the platform. Meaning, if we have a GPS file, GPX file, and then roughly know the speed, that you know how much fluid someone theoretically loses. But there too, drafting, then you have less performance again and so on. But fundamentally knowing how much fluid someone loses, is already a very interesting thing, because relatively much happens there. Especially when direct sun exposure comes in, and, ah, big hint by the way, the Endurance Innovation Podcast, they've just started up again, they did relatively a lot on the topic of heat recently, and there are some pretty interesting things, so definitely, listen in, and, yeah, exactly.

Björn: Then probably, especially due to the Norwegians, having become very popular, self-lactate measurement I'll call it for now, whether it's a Lactate Scout or another device. Prick yourself in the finger, take values. How do you see it? I've tried it myself, I find it really hard.

Niclas: Yeah, it's also really hard. Best to burn through three strips per measurement. That also adds up in money. I don't even know how expensive such a strip is. Two euros. I think between 2 and 2.50. Yeah, so that's how it is. So I find, if you know what you're doing, it can be a really meaningful tool. And then it's always... The athlete shouldn't drive themselves crazy, yeah, if, let's say, you're riding intervals, yeah, you're riding threshold intervals, then you'll probably, you ride a threshold interval, measure afterward, have 5 millimol, and think, oh, way too much, I have to ride slower, it's mostly not so. because lactate is also used as fuel, you ride the next interval and then you maybe only have 3.8. And this confusion that arises with these measurements, it helps to either engage intensively with it, which isn't so simple, and B, have possibly a coach who guides you a bit there, and who above all also knows what's happening. So if you do such a simulation, who also knows, okay, we have the first climb, how does the saturation in the muscle look, oxygen saturation maybe, then we ride Fatmax or some speed that at least breaks down the lactate. Or I really do proper intervals with over-under, and measure through, and look what happens. Then that can already make sense. I also have athletes who do that. But it requires some guidance, and measuring yourself and driving yourself crazy, and lactate is also really dependent on, did you eat enough, are you carb-depleted, then suddenly you measure somehow one millimol, and think, whoa, wild, I'm totally optimized now, but actually feels like a half-done toast and... And then you just know, where does this come from, right? The pulse is also somehow half up, and you only have one millimol, and are riding 300 watts and think, crap, I should actually be totally fit, says the lactate, no, not at all, you're just glycogen-depleted. And drawing these conclusions, hm. can really cause people quite a headache, and whether then the benefit, if someone somehow with a VO2max of 50, or even 55, or 60 is now starting to measure lactate intensively, to really squeeze out the last bit, then I say, more volume would maybe be cool, or somehow, no idea, intervals, and mostly then more volume, yeah, and there we don't need to crazy-optimize, um, in top-level sports I find it cool. There it makes sense. There we can really play around and have fun. For everything else I'd say, give yourselves more time for training. Then it also goes better forward. And as said, you can also really wonderfully mismeasure yourself. So you can make great, funny, nonsense measurements. Yeah.

Björn: Okay. Should we still tackle the last category? Because we don't have much written in there.

Niclas: And you also said earlier, we're actually allowed... Yeah, so that's now, I'd say, that's the category... Oh no, we'll just talk about it. That's the category where I say, whoa, they cause more confusion than benefit sometimes. Although, we also have heat sensor written on there. I think the heat sensor definitely has a use case. Yeah, there's a study on it now, or there are several studies on it, it does correlate, but it doesn't necessarily show core body temperature. So we have a few, whatever, 0.5 degree offset, or if I'm cooling internally with some ice slushy or so, the core sensor probably won't register that as quickly as for example now a Core measurement. And it also tends to show a bit less. I'll have to look, maybe we can also cram the study into the show notes. It shows too little sometimes. And there you can of course overestimate yourself in performance. On the other hand it's also again a confusion-creating device. If you say, oh, I can't go over 39.5, and when I'm over this point then I break down. especially in such a short race, or shorter one, whatever, cross-country or even marathon, then on the other hand it shows that there are athletes who ride around with 40 degrees and collapse at the finish, and that's the ability they have, yeah, they can really go significantly above, so there too, where's the limit, where's your threshold of heat capacity, what you can tolerate, and is it also trainable, and so I think, we need more data there too, maybe also more valid ones. The algorithm of this device can definitely still be adjusted, but fundamentally there is a use case, and I also see, that for example in an ultramarathon or when running for example, you say, okay, I'll pace myself through here. Or afterward in the retro-analysis of the data, you say again, okay, what actually happened here with the heat? Why didn't that work? That can be really interesting data. You have to engage with it. And I also think that we still, the data situation is still too small, that we can say, okay, if someone rides this way and that way, then we have a problem. I'm curious.

Björn: And that was also a bit my reason, why I put it on the nonsense list now, because I think, sometimes many athletes buy it. It's also being offered on rental platforms, so you can rent it. I think, just getting it, I think it costs almost 300 euros somehow.

Niclas: Really?

Björn: Well I think 82 at least. And for that I think, that's, so the money just isn't worth it yet, because now maybe one percent of athletes can really do something with it currently, and just buying it now and always carrying it around is. Yeah, like you're also saying, the data situation just isn't there yet. The device maybe just doesn't measure accurately enough yet. The algorithm behind it doesn't quite fit yet. And that's why I think to spend 280 euros now, yeah...

Niclas: I look at the data, also with heat training and so on, whether there are correlations and what ideas there are, and there was also just pretty interesting, so how hot should the body actually run and so on, there's a bit more recent studies, you can steer that a bit, you don't always have to fully run yourself into the wall, and so, it can already make sense, yeah, so, yeah. But now we come to my favorite device.

Björn: Yeah, no. What I still want to say about the heat sensor, because I find, that's right with all the gadgets a point that's important to me, you can spend incredibly much money on these things, but many athletes then don't manage to take their 60 grams of carbs every hour, or take the protein powder afterward. Right. And then I think, yeah, you spend 280 euros on that, spend 280 euros on gels or protein powder, make sure you take enough protein, make sure you take enough carbs, with that you'll definitely get better, than with any heat sensor. And that's the... What I always find a bit tricky. People are very quick to spend a lot of money on some gadget, because it's advertised coolly, but the simple things, the basics, to simply do them right, and to do them right long-term. It doesn't do anything to eat well for just one month. Nutrition is something you have to do properly over years. And then you'll get better. And that's also, I think, what separates the really good athletes from the not-so-good athletes, that they simply do the simple things right over the long time, and therefore have the adaptation. And that's why I'm, especially about the heat sensor, because I have the feeling that many people want to buy it, I think, yeah, I'd spend the 280 euros on something else.

Niclas: Yeah, Garmin taillight.

Björn: Yeah, so, then you don't get run over and lie there.

Niclas: Lifesaver, really, totally. Neon yellow vest. I don't know. So, now we have, then we still have on not so, not so important, blood glucose sensor. Whoa, I find them really tricky, because they, whatever, I mean, of course they're important, super important for people who have problems with it, diabetics. But what we've experienced, is above all a massively huge unsettling of athletes, that they really, really, they ate nothing anymore or only this and that, and they really undernourished themselves in some cases, yeah. And then they somehow ate something again, and then there was another spike in training, and they couldn't explain it, and, wow, so for me as a coach that was, so, if someone, sure, so if you want to show someone, you eat crap all day, yeah, it might make sense, to slap such a thing on them for two weeks and say, hey, your blood sugar always goes way too high, eat more vegetables and whole grains. Yeah. Yeah, okay, you can maybe also do that with a nutrition diary. And sure, everyone also reacts a bit differently to possible foods. Yeah, but I had above all the feeling that it massively unsettled the athletes and also normal people. And I'm not so happy there. And I also never know exactly, how, so how accurately do the devices measure, yeah, so it is, I hope they do, yeah, they're medical products, so they do, but yeah, so I was not so, I think, it caused more panic and it's also such a gadget that so, wow, that went from sick people into the top sports area, whereas the big, does Supersapiens actually still exist? I don't think so. So there too, I mean, they just really disappeared. So you don't actually see the devices anymore. And now it's probably more of a lifestyle product. But there I say, dude, just eat vegetables and whole grains and eat less sugar, and then the box is also somehow... Then it fits, right? And combine foods, yeah? If you just pound starch into yourself, then of course your blood sugar will go up, combine it with a bit of protein and fat, and, oh wonder, it doesn't rise as much. One times one, I mean, those are two A4 pages you can read about healthy nutrition. And then you know how it works. And, yeah. Everyone knows how it works, how to eat sensibly. And do you need such a sensor? I don't know. Yeah. What do you say? It's always so funny when people walk around with these things and you think, hey, are you sick or what? No, I'm measuring that now, and then of course we also tried it out and we also got a few sent to us, and then the athletes did it. You're not allowed to wear them in a race, so you have to do that only in the race-free time, and then you can say, my blood sugar is such and such, and I have this and that in training, and big confusion, really greatest confusion. And blood sugar is also dependent on the psyche. So if someone is super stressed, then it also looks different again. So yeah, that goes into that area.

Björn: Yeah. that if the athlete is metabolically healthy, then it's not bad for our body first of all if the blood sugar rises. The body can regulate that. That's totally normal in our metabolism. And especially as an athlete, who, let's say, trains 10, 15, 20 hours a week, you'll burn all that off again. You have to eat your carbs.

Niclas: So... That's just nonsense. Yeah, so if someone does that and someone also really with a doctor, who'd like to possibly discuss it, who knows about it, who has already seen many of these values and can also judge it, then I say yes. That's also such an area, I have to honestly say, that is for me... That's so borderline. I have too little knowledge there, that I can say, okay, we have a problem here. Of course I can say something, if I see, oh, that's too high and that's permanently too high, that's now not so awesome. But there you go to the doctor and say, hey, please check. And that's such a device, that belongs in medicine and is tricky. Reboots. Don't you like Reboots?

Björn: I've never used them, honestly. I have to say, I also haven't used them, but the study situation says so far, it's bogus.

Niclas: But you know, I mean, they look funny. You look like the Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters. Yeah.

Björn: I think, a black roll brings you more, or the money that you'd spend on the Reboots, rather go to the physio, or... Go out to eat once. I have to be careful when I say that physios massage, they don't, but rather you go to someone who massages you. So, done. So maybe rather spend the money for a good massage. You'll probably ultimately get more, maybe even relax better. Um...

Niclas: Yeah, so compression... I find it's also... things, yeah. Yeah, I find, it's also... Are there other companies besides Reboots? Yeah, so there's still other... What are these devices actually called? What are they called? Description?

Björn: Whoa, no idea. I wrote them down under Reboots, because that's the manufacturer that pummels me most with ads on Instagram.

Niclas: Yeah, so I have athletes who have it. I can't really say that much about it. Interesting I also find the study situation currently, as for... so this cold water treatment and recovery and so on, which was the thing always, where there were special tubs, you had these inflatable things, and with cold water, and then they all somehow put ice barrels in the garden, and so on, and now a study comes out that says, but they're still doing it, yeah, I know, but now came somehow so two, three months ago, I have to look, a study came out that says, hey, it's all baloney, to the contrary, recovery is worse, warm water it is. Yeah, you just have to lie in a warm bathtub, I've always said. That's where I recover, and not when I plunge into two-degree water. Because afterward I'm, well, immune system, everything's shot.

Björn: So I prefer to lie down... I prefer to lie down in bed, or possibly just two blankets and stay there, and if I'm done, I stay there somehow ten hours, done.

Niclas: Nah, a hot bathtub, or warm bathtub allegedly has a higher regenerative character, than lying in an ice barrel. And I also really don't know, hey, sorry, don't we have enough problems in the world, instead of now somehow... dunking yourself in such an ice tub? Hey, just ride your bike in crappy weather to work. That's real toughness, yeah. Yeah, well, good, I find it already fascinating, when I walk along the Isar here. Yeah, exactly, when I walk along the Isar, and see a few people, they sit there, I had recently, that was really wild, I saw a guy in a bathrobe, and namely, he was jogging in a bathrobe and flipflops across the Isar canal to the Isar. I thought, hey, what's going on? And it was really cold. And then suddenly I saw the bathrobe hanging on a tree and the flipflops in front. And I walked along with my wife. And then I said, hey, watch this, he's now sat himself into the Isar, no idea how many degrees it has right now, three, four, five, six, no idea. And there he sat, totally chilled. And I already thought, that's something, if you like it, you can do it, wouldn't be my thing. There's this group, I think, in Munich too, Munich Hot Springs or so, they meet regularly and sit themselves into the Isar, which is always freezing cold. And then have their wool hats on and hang out. So it's a nice pastime, you can do it. I'd now, so I'd say, I live close enough to the Isar to do it. But I'm also someone, with us, if I go swimming now, here where we have two lakes around the corner, really walking distance. I put on a wetsuit. My wife still swims in a swimsuit, and I put on a wetsuit. First it has awesome buoyancy. And I hate freezing in the water. It's hell. I grew up by the North Sea.

Björn: Cold water, no way.

Niclas: Really crappy.

Björn: My girlfriend also teases me about this, that I, she easily goes into the pool, and I stay lying on the lawn, because I say to myself, nah, it's too cold for me, don't feel like it. So cold water, you also can't get me into that.

Niclas: Yeah, I also, when I'm in the pool with my sons, it's like, there's the kids' paddling pool that's at a totally pleasant temperature, and then there's the normal swimming pool and it's really cold. It's super cold. I go in and think, oh damn, dude. And it's not like I have three percent body fat. I wish. It's definitely too much on there. I actually have a good bio-neoprene layer as fat around me. I freeze anyway. Yeah. Okay, good, that was our gadget list, extensive, yeah, good, they can also build something on Instagram, which indispensable gadgets there are and which are really pointless. Yeah, so we also still have kettlebell and gym access, I find it super. I also find rowing ergometer super, having such a thing at home is also for me an indispensable gadget, but that's more aimed at me and indispensable.

Björn: The good glasses you even mentioned. The good glasses. We still have Oakley glasses on the list.

Niclas: Oh right, Oakley. Who put Oakley glasses on there? Yeah, because you said, you need large glasses. Oh right, you need large. Me? You need an Oakley. Oh right, yeah. So I only have Oakley. I actually only have Oakleys, because I've always had them. I also have really old Oakleys. Did I tell you about that? I have such an awesome Lance Armstrong Oakley from 1900. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. More time for meal preparation is also still indispensable. And not just ingesting nonsense. That's it. Next week. Very nice.

Björn: Have fun training. Next week, next episode.