Zone di allenamento — cosa fa cosa?

Björn: Hi, this is the Afasteryou Podcast with Sebastian Schluricke and Björn Kafka. Your podcast for aerodynamics and endurance training. Welcome to our new Afasteryou podcast. Me and Sebastian Schluricke are back after a long hiatus. But a lot has happened. Sebastian, welcome — even though we hear each other almost every day. That's how it's done, I've heard. So tell us — what have we been up to?

Sebastian: Hi Björn. Glad we found the time for a podcast again. There's always a lot going on. And yeah, we've been busy. We've kept developing our platform. Little things, bug fixes, etc. What's really exciting is that we've signed a partnership with WattShop. We want to work more closely together. We've done a lot in the past. With WattShop's help we have the ability to keep developing our Aerotest system, and we've made major progress in the velodrome. With the input WattShop provides and the requests WattShop has, we've moved a lot — especially improving measurement accuracy, usability, our graphs have gotten significantly better, simulation results improved. We've really taken big steps forward. We also see a lot of potential for us in the future to keep marketing and improving our Aerotest velodrome system. We're still in a test phase, we want to make a few more optimizations, then we'll promote the whole thing again. WattShop's standards are high. And we're meeting them so far. WattShop employs several Tour de France teams, and we ourselves have Tour de France teams using our system. We published something about that — how Astana did it, for example. And yeah, we're developing steadily, and we're happy to have a strong partner like WattShop — people who really know what they're doing and have a lot of experience. No one tests as much aerodynamics as WattShop. That's a level of professionalism that's really great and really pushes us forward. That's what's happened on the aerodynamics side. More changes and additional options are coming in the future. And what we've done on our platform — we have the running test. The Powertest has become really easy now. For the running Powertest, it's important we have a stadium. We have high standards — we want to bring the same good test results we already have in cycling over to running. A really important piece of that is proper speed measurement. We'd already invested a lot of time, looked at the data that various running power meters offer, and unfortunately kept finding that speed measurement isn't perfect, which is a problem for a repeatable Powertest. So we decided to do it on the running track — because on the track we can actually say, if someone runs on the inside lane, one lap is 400 meters, or whatever the track length is. And with some serious math and physics we can project onto that 400m track. There are great filters — Kalman filters, for example — that improve the speed data, and with that we can collect really excellent speed data on the running track. We made a little video about it. You can check it out on our Instagram — a little reel on how the math works. You can see a clear quality improvement in the speed measurement. So everyone has the ability to do high-quality, truly repeatable running Powertests. And yeah, we were... ...really busy on the platform side, and we'll keep being busy. We've also collected really great successes with your athletes. Björn, tell us — I don't know if you can remember it all. I can't. But tell us — what's happened on the athlete side?

Björn: Yeah, Andi Seewald keeps going fast and winning a lot. He just won in Poland — UCI Marathon World Series. Then — what I'm really happy about — is Team Rinkhoff, which I work with closely. We just won the Malopolska Tour in Poland with Jonas Rapp. Rainer Kepplinger took second, also on the team. Won the team classification, the mountains jersey — won everything possible. And what makes me happy is that the plan came together the way we imagined: we said okay, let's optimize rider weight, lower lactate production rates for the stage races, and so on. That worked great. Today — no, yesterday — the Upper Austria Tour started for the guys. Curious whether we can pull that off just as well. But yeah, I'm confident. Then an athlete I've only been working with for six months, Nadine Gill. She's riding insanely strong, currently in Spain. She's basically already won the Spain Cup with lots of wins and podiums. Did a great Burgos race — I think she finished 15th or 17th, don't pin me down on that. On the WorldTour. And yeah, I'm excited. Her future looks good. Generally very happy. Lena Götzenberger also won the middle-distance German championship in Ingolstadt. Even if I'm not a triathlon coach — that can happen sometimes too.

Sebastian: Well, you are a triathlon coach, otherwise you wouldn't be coaching. Maybe it's not your main thing yet. But these are the fundamental principles behind the platform, behind your knowledge, and behind Mader's methods — bringing the whole thing to a new level. Bringing VLamax into triathlon — both on the bike and running — has proven really successful over and over. Exactly. These are the principles behind the whole system. And they're transferable. I know, for example, that the whole system also works for rowing. So there, too — an interesting thing. You always have to see that we can step-by-step roll this tech out to different sports, so everyone can benefit from using the metabolic profile for training management, and reach a new level. And you see it again and again in the success you have with your athletes — where of course there's more to it than just the Powertest. Training itself is behind it. But using the Powertest as the foundation for training management is a fantastic thing. And that's exactly what we want to offer our customers, our athletes — the athletes listening here — who've already successfully used our Powertest to raise their performance and improve their training planning.

Björn: Exactly. And that's the perfect lead-in. Today we want to talk about the training zones our Powertest generates and what you do with them. It's probably not as straightforward as everyone imagines — there are lots of little detours. We'll try to make it as clear, short, and understandable as possible. And we start flying blind. Sebastian.

Sebastian: Right, happy to. We have our training zones, and you always wonder — what are these training zones for? There's a basic idea of what a training zone does. We want to shed some light on it. We have these training zones for running too. And with running — as you'll see, in our beta running phase, sometimes a training zone might not work the way you imagine. It might be significantly slower, for example, due to the metabolic system. We'll try to bring a little more clarity. Let's start — maybe you have our platform open in parallel, or you've already seen the PDF, or you're not sure what to do with it. The Powertest is our metabolic profile — performance diagnostics that replaces spirometry with a lactate step test, and tells you about your aerobic and anaerobic capacity. And now it's about how to change those parameters. That's what training zones are for, and you know them in general. Training zones have effects on these parameters — on maximum oxygen uptake, VO2max, and on lactate production rate. Let's go through our training zones. We'll name them again for everyone. The first training zone we have is Recovery — regeneration. Björn, quickly — we probably don't need to talk too much about it. Regeneration — when do you use it, say, with your athletes?

Björn: I like to use it after races, actually. I usually don't stick a rest day right after a race — that only comes the day after. I usually do a 45-minute to max 90-minute recovery ride. And just — if you had travel stress, sat in the car a lot, circulation shut down, blood pressure down — just moving a bit is always a nice thing. I also like to use this zone to put a certain stimulus on calorie turnover. So if I have an athlete who should get lighter, I'll say, okay, instead of a rest day, go spin easy for 45 minutes — you'll burn another 500, or maybe just 400 calories, kilojoules. And then you can eat a bit more. Because that's the big problem sometimes — people are constantly hungry when they train that much, which is fair. And on rest days, if they're trying to make weight, it's really hard to say okay, I'll eat only 1800 calories. Easier to say, okay, I'll ride a bit, very easy, it doesn't hurt, and I can put a bit more food into my body. Then it's easy. You can always do some nice training — even in times like Corona or similar. This is the first entry where I say okay, we start all the way at recovery, look at what the heart rate says, how the watts-to-heart-rate relationship develops. A good zone, always useful.

Sebastian: Can you do something wrong with recovery?

Björn: Almost nothing — but sure, you can go wrong. For example, going too long. If you say okay, I'll ride three hours of recovery, eat and drink nothing — then it doesn't have the recovery effect we want. It then has a real impact on your metabolic profile. You recover more slowly. Most likely lactate production will be affected — will drop. But there are better ways to get that. So I wouldn't ride more than 90 minutes max.

Sebastian: Okay, so it has the regenerative character, which we want after races, for example, or at the end of a training block, in a recovery week — giving the body a chance to recover, not letting volume get too high, as I understand it, so we really have active recovery. Right. Okay. And we shouldn't go too deep into what recovery all means, or we won't finish today. We have too many training zones. People write books about this. Exactly. Don't forget that. I think now we come to the base unit in English, base endurance — our GA1, base endurance training zone. We also offer — we show the power values directly on the platform for what range you should be in. At the same time we give you — if you used heart rate during your Powertest — the heart rate zone. And for running you get your pace so you know what range this training zone is in. Metabolically speaking, it sits in a specific range. Relatively low. And there's thought behind that too. So if I think about it — I'm doing base endurance training, and we always give these two parameters in the Powertest: VO2max, the size of my engine, and VLamax, the efficiency of my engine. Tell us — I know, but tell us — what effect does base training have on these two parameters?

Björn: Both. Unfortunately you won't get a straight answer from me there. This training has A, a great effect on VO2max. Capillarization is improved, etc. Base is called base for a reason. For me — and I think for all coaches — it's the most important training zone there is. There are the famous approaches or studies on polarized training where 80, 90 percent of time is spent there — that has absolute merit. But don't pin yourself on that. We'll come back to it more precisely later. But is it really always true when I say okay, this always has a great effect on VO2max? Not necessarily — because if I ride it fasted, and really long, of course that's also a strong stimulus on VLamax. And if I do that too much and too long, I can also drive VO2max into the ground, if nothing's being put in, if the engine doesn't come in.

Sebastian: When you say that — sorry — and you say a stimulus on VLamax, that means you lower VLamax. I lower VLamax, exactly.

Björn: To put it plainly, what I observe — you regulate the movement of VLamax versus VO2max through your nutrition during training. Too few carbs means you'll most likely see it drop, especially if the sessions get long. Enough carbs, the right amount, especially in volume — you'll raise VO2max. That's why before you even think about what you want to achieve and how much time you have — if I say I want to raise VO2max, I should definitely eat. And eat during training, not after. The whole time during training. The amounts we've listed are good. If you're hungrier, stop at a gas station, eat. The body gives good feedback. But if I say I want to lower VLamax, I can also use base for that. Some people use a sledgehammer: I ride six hours fasted. I wouldn't say that's sensible, but it definitely has a stimulus.

Sebastian: When you train your athletes — what do you use the base endurance session for? Mainly for VO2max training, or mainly for lowering VLamax?

Björn: Mostly VO2max training. There are some athletes with very high lactate production. For those I do sometimes say okay, we ride maybe two or three hours of base, ride the first 90 minutes fasted — maybe only had a low-carb breakfast and emptied out a bit in the evening. Then I do use it that way, but more rarely.

Sebastian: Quickly — what's a high VLamax for you? Depends on the sport.

Björn: Anything over 0.6 is high.

Sebastian: Okay.

Björn: Yeah, anything over 0.6 is too high for most endurance sports we deal with.

Sebastian: Okay, that's already important info. So my takeaway — if I do base training, I'd tend to use it to stimulate my VO2max. So I actually stay in that wattage range, and I fuel carb-neutral the way we recommend. We've specified an amount, I eat from the start, and then I have an idea of what I'm doing — I'm raising my VO2max. And that is, if I understand you right, Björn — you can add to this — my general training goal is to raise VO2max. Always. And in exceptional cases, if the athlete really has huge lactate production rates — you mentioned over 0.6 for example — you can look at it in detail. Then you can also say, don't go six hours fasted right away, maybe ride the first 90 minutes fasted, to get a stimulus to lower VLamax.

Björn: Yeah — 0.6 per se isn't bad, to say that briefly. But if I say I want a certain VLamax for race XY, 0.6 is usually already too high. Sure, if I have a very high VO2max and want to win sprints at the Tour, or the Classics, you can work with that nicely — but we're talking about freaks of nature at that point, people with extremely high VO2max who just absorb it with engine power and then still have enough glycolytic power to bury someone in a sprint or drop a two-minute effort.

Sebastian: We also did a podcast where we sketched out how VLamax could behave over an entire season. We'll definitely do more on that. You can stay tuned — we'll lay out periodization over a season for different sports. But that's not our main goal today. Today is more about showing the effects of the training units, to make you a bit more sensitive to how to use a training zone and what mistakes to avoid. With base we've understood we maybe don't do six hours fasted. That has a completely different effect — and long-term consequences. If I imagine doing that three days in a row, it'll definitely do more to my body than I might want for long-term training development. Good — so we know what base endurance 1 means for us. That's our — as you said, and you can see it on our platform — we often specify training times. The idea of training planning is always to set a focus for a week, for example base endurance focus, or threshold training focus. We'll get to the threshold training zone. But they're always paired with base endurance training. That's why base is the most important training zone we have. It's where most time gets invested. Use it as VO2max training, fuel with the carbs accordingly, don't do the classic training-camp thing of eating nothing all day and then hitting the buffet in the evening. I think your recovery would be better if you fuel well during training — you get more out of the camp and are still fit on day 10, not game-over. Good — next training zone, a really interesting one. We also show a specific power for it — the Fatmax training zone. We always show a Fatmax power. Want to tell us quickly — what is Fatmax power? What's special about it?

Björn: It's basically the power where we have the highest fat utilization — and also the power where we have the best lactate clearance. So if I've done a hard interval and drop back into this range, I metabolize lactate best. That's why this range is interesting. It's the economization of the whole engine system, raising VO2max. Iñigo San Millán, Pogačar's coach, does a lot of Zone 2 training, Fatmax training. So an extremely interesting range. It depends on what type of rider you are, how long you can hold it, how long you can ride in it. Someone with a high VLamax actually has a very narrow Fatmax range — they can ride in it extremely long. Someone who's already maxed out, high VO2max and low VLamax — they'd only ride Fatmax in intervals, because we're then at wattages of 300-plus. For a rider who weighs maybe 70 kilos, that's seriously fast. They're riding 38, 39 km/h. And it's important to fuel properly, because Fatmax doesn't just mean — we might have the highest fat share, but we're still at 300 watts of total energetic output. Times 3.6 gives you kilojoules. Then you know what energy flow you're in. A lot happens. So it also raises VO2max, similar game. Basically you can say — base as we just discussed, plus Fatmax, is what you raise VO2max with. And our Powertest also shows how many hours you should spend in the Fatmax range combined with base.

Sebastian: Yeah, you can see it's less overall. Base gets significantly less time. You can do relatively a lot in Fatmax. I sometimes think of it — correct me any time — as the upper range, the upper range of base endurance, but so specific that you mustn't forget, and you see it in the analysis: it's even more carbs that I have to take in. Even though I have my maximum fat oxidation there, I burn more carbs than in the lower range — the base endurance range. So there too, it'll be very important to take in carbs, so you can maintain quality in the session. And so that — if I've learned correctly from the base zone we talked about before — we have the stimulus mode on VO2max again. Yeah. Björn, generally — all the training units, all the zones we're describing: if we always do them without carbs, they'll always have the effect of lowering lactate production rate. Right?

Björn: Exactly. If I don't eat to replace it, if I'm always in deficit and don't make it up during the day either, I'll most likely lower my VLamax — which maybe I don't even want. I should avoid that. Quick side note. In our latest update — we didn't mention this — we've added the ability for the athlete to specify how much time they have per week for training. Right. Before, we always calculated the optimum based on VO2max and lactate production, i.e., how many hours an athlete should ideally spend. Coming from the pro sports world, the natural thought is always to give the maximum, the optimum. But many, many athletes have less time — 10 hours, whatever. And you see, when we have restricted time — reduced times — that Fatmax is really just Fatmax; you have seven hours of Fatmax. And then you ask yourself — what should I actually train? Should I train base when I have seven hours, or should I train Fatmax? And I'd generally say: maybe one week of base and then two weeks of Fatmax. Just push the maximum energy flow you can get in this base-to-Fatmax range right into Fatmax. That's the biggest bang for the buck.

Sebastian: Yeah, definitely interesting. And that makes it obvious too — I need to pay even more attention to carb intake. Definitely. Definitely. Okay, great. That's already solid, and the Fatmax range really is a special one. You might come back to it in the other zones, because in the Fatmax range — as you already mentioned — you also have the most lactate turnover, which gives it really interesting functions. Zone combinations arise that you can use in training to squeeze out a few more percent of effectiveness. Next training zone. That's base endurance 2. And there's a little quirk — we don't even show hours for GA2 on our platform. Yeah. Do you use this training?

Björn: Yeah, I use it. Just yesterday I had an athlete who rode two hours in this range. I use it only to lower the lactate production rate. I find it's the most effective way. People who follow polarized training — whether they believe in it or not — followers of polarized training would call this Black Hole Training, training that does nothing, from there up to sweet spot, all nonsense, threshold and so on. I find this training has absolute merit, has an extremely high stimulus on VLamax, especially when I'm going into racing season or want a strong short-term stimulus. We metabolize extreme amounts of carbs in this range. We usually can't replace them. I don't want to, either. But I do eat a bit. Sure, 50, 60 grams. But if I dumped 120 grams in there, I'd definitely be lowering VLamax. I'm seeing this right now with a really good pro. After just four sessions each — four-hour base endurance paired with two hours of tempo training — the athlete is now holding 41 km/h the whole time, and it's already shown up in his recent races. He rode off the front. Significantly less susceptible to fatigue. We just ran a Powertest. VLamax has dropped. So that had an extremely high stimulus on VLamax over very few sessions.

Sebastian: I think it's great training. For athletes who still have a relatively high VLamax at rest and want to lower it — they can use it. Just don't forget, when you're talking, it's always pros with lots of time to recover. If our listeners don't have as much time and say, okay, I'll pull this off too — please always look at the Powertest. It shows you how much time you can spend in this zone. Don't just do too much. Use the graphs and calculations we provide, so you don't get into overtraining or cause other effects you don't want. I always think — when you talk about these near-world-class athletes, we need to also make the jump to our other athletes on the platform.

Björn: Bluntly put, I think the vast majority of athletes ride in this range. It's this tempo — an ugly tempo. Not fast, not slow, just pure grit. A lot of group rides, etc., happen in this tempo range. And especially if you have older athletes who've been in this range for a long time, over the years they've really trained VLamax down, completely ruined it. The muscle fibers have conditioned themselves to only twitch slowly. Usually there's no saving it. That's why we really didn't show a time, because with this training you can get a great stimulus — but you can also wreck a lot. There's this anachronism that eating during training isn't good, and they can ruin themselves. And you can hold this range incredibly long. It feels — you feel like you're making progress. Who wants to ride around at 25 km/h? That feels mega slow.

Sebastian: I actually think it's worse with runners. Runners love it even more — running in the sweet spot range. And when you think of polarized training and, say, someone does a Powertest with us and has a threshold pace of 4:30 per km but is used to running somewhere around 5:00, 5:20, and now they're a bit shocked that their base endurance is significantly slower with us, then... ...of course they question it. But just think — polarized training can't be 4:30 in the race and 5:00 in training. That's not polarized, if we're talking about polarized training. The speeds are significantly slower, but you want to run faster. You're used to it, the zones are calculated that way, and you end up running sweet spot all the time. You can debate whether that's sensible or not. Generally you can say, if you're in that range — and you've said this before — every training helps. Even if you train sweet spot, you can still get better. It's not inherently a contradiction that a training zone comes out slower than you'd like — it's actually a chance to make your training even better, by doing the slow sessions truly slowly, within your capabilities. And if you want to run faster, at least you're aware of what zone you're in, maybe you fuel with more carbs. Because it's not a rule. We're just trying to give you the ability to optimize your training with training zones that have a targeted effect. And if you do this sweet-spot running training, you're constantly only lowering VLamax — and later you might have no desire left to do VLamax sessions, because you can't even run fast anymore. And because you've been carb-depleted the whole time, maybe there are already hormonal changes working against your motivation for hard high-intensity efforts.

Björn: Definitely. With running — we've discussed this a lot. I find the zone distribution we have, or the known zone distributions we've found — I find the base zones in running are sometimes really high. So sure, it doesn't feel great to run around at a 6:00 per km pace, or slower, 6:30. I always say, give it a chance to really run that slow. And combine that with really fast runs. What I've observed — which we've now seen with Lena Götzenberger at the middle-distance — has a significantly better effect on her running quality than...

Sebastian: You can look at elite athletes from Africa — same thing. We're talking really high speeds, 26, 27 minutes for 10K. And when they do their easy runs, they run at 5:00 or 5:30 per km. You see — there's a huge gap between high-intensity training (pace well under 3:00) and an easy base endurance run done at 5:00 pace. Huge difference. And that's really polarized training in that zone. For age-group athletes, if you want to implement it that way, it means you really have to run slowly. That feels — you always have your comfort speed that feels right for you. And when you have to step out of that, it's a hurdle. But it's a great opportunity. That's how it should be. Okay, so we're through GA2. There too you see really high carb consumption. Really usable for lowering VLamax. It's now a slightly more specialized training, because we don't show times for it. So really use it if you have a very high VLamax, to lower it. And be aware that it's a big, strong stimulus. Don't deploy it too often, or you end up just getting tired from it and maybe train yourself into a dead end. I should also add — when we were in the recovery range, that's a general zone, but for base and Fatmax we're still relatively far away from our main race. Those are at the very start of building the season. Fatmax you can generally use. But when we're at GA2, we're surely — and you said this — much closer to our race and want to start working more specifically on VLamax to lower it for a race. At the start of the season we might still have a higher VLamax for a good stimulus on VO2max. For the race itself, depending on the race — but often, as you said, a low VLamax is interesting. Then for this race or main race it gets lowered again. On to sweet spot.

Björn: Tell us, what's sweet spot? Yeah, sweet spot is a range that — I think — can do everything. I think most people have it in their head — okay, sweet spot lowers VLamax, especially with big gears. Works super well, and that's true. In the sweet spot range, 30-minute, 20-minute intervals combined with big gears — great effect on VLamax. But you can also have an effect on VO2max here, by fueling extremely well, working with high cadence, ideally riding a kind of primer beforehand — two or three minutes of VO2max, which is already hard — and then dropping into the sweet spot range. Then you also get a stimulus on VO2max. I even do that often. The nice thing is — you always have to think, am I training the system, do I want a certain engine size, engine economy? Or am I trying to reach a specific race requirement? I like to use sweet spot when I know, okay, we're racing somewhere in the mountains — the Alps, Pyrenees, a stage race. Then I say, okay, how will those climbs be ridden? Let's say I see three climbs — Madeleine, Grand Ballon, and Alpe d'Huez. We ride the first climbs in sweet spot tempo, maybe with one or two faster sections. I can simulate that perfectly as a sweet spot session. So for a race-specific session, that makes a lot of sense. If I combine it to capture that specificity — if I'm a pro or amateur doing the Transalp, this is the range where you ride climbs. You do 2, 3, 4, 5000 meters of climbing per day. So you won't ride threshold up the climbs. You can't sustain that energetically. You'll ride sweet spot the whole way up. Train that, so it actually works. Simple. But on the other hand — to improve engine economy, I can say, okay, I lean more into this range, I ride big gears, maybe even slightly under-fuel, and then I also have a very strong stimulus on VLamax. Exactly. So it's a range that can do anything. Depending on the goal, I use it.

Sebastian: And your most common method? Where do you use it most — more for lowering VLamax?

Björn: Oh, super mixed. More like 50-50? 50-50. I don't pin it down. I wouldn't say this zone is only for that. Though with base and Fatmax, yeah, kind of. But there are zones I just — depends on the athlete, extremely. Depends on the race. I know, okay, we're heading into the mountains for several days, 45-minute climb — I'll hammer sweet spot. What would you recommend to our listeners?

Sebastian: How should they handle this zone?

Björn: So I think when marathon, MTB marathon season begins, or any cycling marathons — I'd use this zone specifically. I'm getting used to the race. And fuel well with carbs? Yeah, I would. I wouldn't try to lower the lactate production rate at all costs. You can... Especially now, we're in racing season. You wouldn't — if you're riding the Ötztaler at the end of August, start of September, you could say okay, we lower it one more time. Although I'd use tempo training for that. I prefer to use this zone to capture race specificity. Especially now.

Sebastian: Okay, good. We're through sweet spot. Next zone, maybe a lesser-known one, not commonly shown at the consumer level — Maximum Lactate Steady State, the stabilized lactate state. Tell us — what is that? Quickly MLSS. You already touched on it. Yeah, but we can expand it here a bit. What's this zone good for? What do you use it for, generally?

Björn: So like you said, it's this steady state. How do we capture it? We know classic step tests. Or, better said, how do we measure it? There's the famous 4 mmol threshold. Plus or minus, let's say. That usually doesn't work well. The gold standard of lactate tests — how they used to be done — is: you run for half an hour at very high pace on the track. It'll stabilize around three or four mmol. And if you only have a very slight lactate rise, we're talking about a maximum lactate steady state, a lactate equilibrium, production and clearance equal. What do I use this zone for? I use it almost only for time trials. If there's a national championship coming up, or time trials in stage races, and I have a good time trialist, I use this zone very intensively to prepare for TTs. I usually start by letting athletes train on the trainer. Interval work, in this zone, maybe just 5-minute intervals first. Five times five minutes with 3 to 4 minutes rest between. Because TT position feels a bit different. Ideally you do a Powertest in TT position to know it exactly. Then I build the athletes up... I always isolate — for TT work, I isolate the surroundings, traffic and so on. Bernal injured himself in training on a TT, Froome did too. So I like to isolate the athletes first, put them on the trainer, ride at target power zones. Then I make the intervals longer. I go from 5 minutes to 10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes, so I'm at like two times 20 minutes in those target zones on the trainer. Combine it with riding outside on the TT bike but not yet at target power, and then at some point I go to target power. Outside on the road, when I'm safe, I can push, I feel good on the bike — then I start. And then you can bring in negative splits and similar if you want. But basically, I start by pacing a TT — I ride a bit slower or just under threshold first, then the last part of the TT above threshold. That has the advantage that many athletes tend to overpace in TTs and then percentage-wise have bigger time loss at the end. This buffers that a bit. And of course also course-dependent — you know better than I do. For example, where do I gain more time? Say, flat stretch and then a climb, I do a negative split. On the climb I gain more time percentage-wise than on a flat section with possibly a headwind or whatever. There I can press however I want, not much comes out of it time-wise. On the climb — where I wanted — there's more. So honestly I use it almost exclusively for TT prep.

Sebastian: Okay.

Björn: Didn't expect that, huh?

Sebastian: Yeah. I'm used to a few things from you. You used to coach me too. I've picked up a few things. What I'd find interesting — you said earlier you have sweet spot variations where you ride two, three minutes of VO2max first and then sweet spot. Do you do that with MLSS too?

Björn: Yeah, sometimes for TTs, if I know it's a twisty course with lots of sprint efforts — I build that in occasionally. But that's really specific.

Sebastian: Okay, so we have it more as specific TT training.

Björn: That's how I see it.

Sebastian: And if you're generally looking to raise VO2max or lower VLamax, you wouldn't necessarily use MLSS — you'd use one of the other zones. This is your TT zone. Exactly. Okay. You also see carb consumption in this range gets extremely high. So generally something you can't replace anymore, long since can't. The zones before that, you already couldn't replace.

Björn: You can try, right? Three bars or a few liters of Coke per hour.

Sebastian: Yeah. Question is, for how many hours. For one maybe, but then it gets hard. Good — from Maximum Lactate Steady State to our seventh training zone, threshold.

Björn: Critical Power, yeah. Critical Power. Slightly higher threshold model. A very race-oriented threshold model. Often used for running. I find it a very sensible threshold definition. I like using it with runners. For me, a 10K zone — maybe a bit more, 15K depending on the athlete. Also a race-like situation. You're building up slightly higher lactate values. I use it more specifically. Things like twelve times five minutes in this range, short rest times. Great stimulus for races with 10- to 20-minute climbs or runs, like 10K runs or Olympic distance — for all that, I find this is a very nice zone. I wouldn't necessarily use it to raise VO2max or lower VLamax — you can, it does have a nice VO2max stimulus, maybe if you push a bit harder. But it's a zone that can flatten you. Especially if you don't eat enough.

Sebastian: How far are we from the race if we're training specifically — not looking at those two metrics anymore but training race character, or more of this race feel? How far away from our race?

Björn: Four weeks. And then I do this for two and a half weeks.

Sebastian: Okay, so relatively close to the race. Then — good, I've definitely understood. Carb demand would be theoretically sensationally high, and you can see, if you've done a Powertest with us, that fat oxidation goes to zero. So we have no energy generation at the end of the day from fat metabolism.

Björn: Yeah, simulated of course. It's low — you can agree with that. Quick note. The effect of MLSS or Critical Power training also depends on VLamax. Don't forget that. Someone with a very low VLamax riding in the Critical Power range definitely has a strong stimulus on VO2max too. If you look at it percentage-wise — how close is threshold power to VO2max power for someone with a low VO2max? It's significantly closer. So you can also use this range to raise VO2max, if I throw in a one-minute VO2max burst just before and then ride three, four minutes in this range. I can use it as very good VO2max training. For someone with a high VO2max, that makes sense.

Sebastian: What's a low VO2max for you? 0.3, 0.35. Okay, so for them there's actually an effect on VO2max. Absolutely. We're then in the next zone — VO2max at 90%. Which, I think, targets exactly what you just mentioned — slightly more. Tell us about it.

Björn: Yeah, VO2max 90 is one of the nicest ranges for VO2max training, especially for people with low lactate production rates, low glycolytic power — who can't sustain high power through their glycolytic system for long. So it makes more sense to drop them down a notch, in my view and experience, from what we've seen with the athletes and their successes over the last two years. We prefer riding this range. Great stimulus. You ride two-minute intervals in that range, three minutes, four minutes if you can manage. Generally you get a strong stimulus on cardiac output — heart rate, cardiac output, pumping performance is strongly increased. Great training. Especially for cross-country races. If you start this five, six weeks out and then go into specificity — cross-country-specific training, which is very hard — I usually put this kind of VO2max training ahead of that. Maybe partially... ...combined with 100% VO2max too, to get closer to the race. But generally, classic training for the polarized approach. You can also build it into the middle of winter, two weeks, if I have six weeks of base and then hit two weeks of VO2max training hard. VO2max 90 has a nice effect on VO2max.

Sebastian: No problem. In this context it becomes clear how important it is to know your own VLamax. And especially these zones — with simple FTP-based calculators, you won't hit these zones correctly. Especially not if you have a low or high VLamax. Classic FTP calculators are built for the average, not for someone with a low or high VLamax — you can be way off and not get the effect we're describing here, the one we want you to have to improve your training.

Björn: Classic: 120% FTP for someone with a 0.25 lactate production rate — they feel dead. Flattened. Someone with a 0.8 VLamax at 120? Ride nose-picking. Ride 30 minutes of 30-30s. Doesn't faze them.

Sebastian: And that shows how important knowledge of the metabolic profile is, because if you train by these generic formulas you might train completely past the desired effects. A real chance to take another step forward in training quality. That brings us to the last zone — VO2max, our new zone V100, the highest power, VO2max power. You also see a correlation with your one-minute power or four-minute power, depending on which Powertest you've chosen. So we're in this range at that power level. You already said something about VO2max 90 — that was mainly for those with somewhat lower lactate production rates. Now VO2max. Who's it for? What do you try to achieve with it?

Björn: Also raising VO2max, maybe even buffer capacity. How much acidification can I handle? Yeah. But especially cardiac output — getting that up. Véronique Billat started chopping these intervals up into 30-30, 40-20 and so on. Studies showed that chopping intervals that way keeps oxygen uptake very high for a very long time, despite short breaks. So a very good tool. I'd also start with 15-15 intervals, maybe, then move to 30-30, and as the race gets closer, 40-20, maybe even two minutes to get closer to the race. Maybe 50-10, which are extremely brutal intervals but have a great effect. I like to use it especially for cross-country riders. And especially for people with higher lactate production. Classic 0.5 to 0.7 range. Mega zone. VO2max goes way up.

Sebastian: Nice range. Quick note here. Björn just laid out a few examples of what a single training session can look like. You can always download our PDF. We have a full page with example training designs. Check it out. The examples Björn just named are all in there. For every other training zone too, there are examples of how to design the sessions, how long the intervals are, what the timing is. So you have the chance to get really concrete examples of how to design these sessions. Björn, really quick. Now that we've walked through all the zones, let's run through Zone 1 through 9 once more. I'll name the zone, you tell me quickly whether you use it for VO2max, for VLamax, or if it's more specific for you. Very general, just a quick recap. Briefly — recovery?

Björn: Classic.

Sebastian: Recovery. Recovery. Done. Yeah. Base endurance — VO2max. VO2max. Fatmax?

Björn: For me, actually VO2max. Okay, then GA2? Lowering VLamax.

Sebastian: Sweet spot?

Björn: Specifically lowering VLamax. With very low lactate production, also a stimulus on VO2max.

Sebastian: Okay, MLSS?

Björn: Specifically time trials. Threshold, Critical Power — for low VO2max, VO2max-raising. Specific, yeah, that's how I'd describe it. VO2max 90 — VO2max 90. And VO2max 100, also VO2max, plus buffer improvement if I do 40-20 for a long time.

Sebastian: Great. Thank you, Björn, for all the insights you share that we provide to our audience. It's always something special, always good. We want to give you the chance to participate. We develop this for you. Björn always has the ability to bring in insights from pro sport. We let those flow into the platform. We want to share them with you. Our vision is to provide you with the highest quality software that exists — for aero testing and for metabolic testing. We're always looking to keep developing these systems. So we believe we have a real chance to give that to you.

Björn: One more addition. You could say there are many more training zones. Of course there are — neuromuscular stuff and so on. But that's extremely sport-specific. If I have a track sprinter, of course he also has to sprint. But there aren't that many of them. And they usually have a good coach anyway. Or, I don't know, 4000m pursuit — individual or team pursuit, you're in extreme specificity territory. So we don't specify a training zone for those areas. Anyone in those sports really has to know what they're doing, ideally has a coach who knows. Another thing — if I notice I'm getting dropped at the start of a cross-country race after five seconds, I might just need to train that specifically. Which means learning to sprint. So we don't list all those ranges — so-and-so percent above FTP, the classic way. With these training zones we care about one thing: building capacity of the engine, of the athlete, and efficiency. That's what the training zones we present are for. Everything else is highly specific — accelerations and so on. Alright. Sebastian, thank you.

Sebastian: Happy to. I think we did well on time and gave you a good overview. We'll see what comes next on the podcast. We're always open to suggestions and glad to keep doing this.

Björn: Thanks. See you. Ciao, ciao. Bye.