Episode 66 — Transcript (EN)

AI-translated from the German original. Voices cloned with Chatterbox TTS.

Niclas [00:00:14] Welcome to the A Faster You Podcast, where everything revolves around endurance sports and training. Here Sebastian Schluricke, Björn Kafka and Niclas Ranker give you valuable tips and insights to help you take your performance to the next level. Good day and welcome to a new episode of the A Faster You Podcast, today with Björn and Daniel. Good morning.

Björn [00:00:36] Good morning, Daniel Steinhauser. Good morning, Niclas. And why did we invite Daniel, Niclas?

Niclas [00:00:44] Because Daniel rode a bike pretty fast and pretty far within seven days.

Björn [00:00:48] And now, I think, he's officially in the Guinness Book of Records, right?

Daniel [00:00:53] Yes. Very good. It was a hard piece of work to get there.

Björn [00:00:57] Right, so to clarify, Daniel rode 3864 in seven days, I don't remember exactly now.

Daniel [00:01:04] 3857.99 was officially recognized by Guinness, yes. Okay. Is that what he rode?

Niclas [00:01:11] Two kilometers were taken off you?

Daniel [00:01:14] Yes, at some point the GPS, at some point I had to sleep a bit and then the GPS jumped back and forth a bit. I think it monitors things very precisely. Okay.

Björn [00:01:25] Very good. Where did the previous record stand?

Daniel [00:01:29] About 37 kilometers less, I think. It had actually just been significantly improved two or three weeks before.

Niclas [00:01:37] Right. The attempt before was by the Canyon athlete who did it in absolute miserable weather... along the Moselle. He rode up and down the Moselle the whole time, right?

Daniel [00:01:47] Yes, exactly. He had an ideal route and awful temperatures to go with it.

Björn [00:01:52] Daniel didn't have an ideal route, but he had okay temperatures, I'd say, because it was also really, really cold. But let's roll this whole thing up from the beginning. Um, First, people want to know: who is Daniel Steinhauser? Daniel Steinhauser is not a professional athlete, so to speak. And how this idea grew, I'd say it's a project that's been simmering for a few years. Maybe not so acutely, but I think this process of actually doing it once was set in motion a few years earlier. But Daniel, tell us briefly, who are you and how did all this come about?

Daniel [00:02:31] Yes, I'm Daniel Steinhauser, I'm a family man. We have two cool, great boys, ten and twelve years old. I love cycling passionately, and this basically started about ten years ago, that I found cycling cool, or twelve years ago, and in the first years I was riding quite ambitiously, but purely for fun and as a hobby, without having any specific goals I wanted to reach. And at some point I met Markus Kaufmann, whom Niclas also knows quite well, and he said, 'Hey Daniel, get yourself a coach.' And then I called Björn and we started the whole thing as a fun project. Björn always called me his fun project. I hope that's still the case today, Björn. It swings back and forth, right? Sometimes a bit less fun. Right, Sunday evening, when the training plan was supposed to come. Right, and basically I've been racing ultra-cycling events for the past several years. And with a lot of focus and also a lot of frustration tolerance, because from the start not everything always works or can work. And the whole project with these seven days, that actually took concrete shape in my head last year. Actually, this world record, for me it doesn't have such a huge value, because I can assess it, and you can too anyway, that if you optimize the whole thing on an ideal route, under ideal conditions, you can definitely ride significantly more kilometers. For me, I had three goals during those days. The first goal was a grand experience at the limit, or to know my limit, and then a grand experience together with my friends. The setup was, I rode alone on the bike of course, but behind me for seven days, 24 hours, a support vehicle drove with my friends who had been preparing for it for weeks and months. So we had, it's completely crazy, actually something like this isn't feasible. These are all people who have responsible jobs, who have families. This time actually doesn't exist. And since October they met week after week, digitally at first, and at some point also alone without me, and prepared the project. Hygiene concepts were drawn up, medical guidelines, procedures were planned, and this really over many, many months. And That was also very important, because the value especially for the team kept growing, because it really was a large time investment. And the third goal of the whole thing was, of course, to combine it with a good social project. We collected donations for the children's hospice in Bad Grönenbach. Those were the three goals for this project. And we reached the limit.

Björn [00:05:05] Just briefly, the first two goals are also goals you can have another way, like spending a week drunk at a festival with friends.

Niclas [00:05:13] You could've had those much more easily, let's put it that way. There are people who spend a week drinking at Rock am Ring and find their limit somewhere too.

Daniel [00:05:21] Yes, that's right. And they mostly nourish themselves with liquids, just like I did. Yes. And they throw up too. Yes, they throw up too, exactly. And they carry on afterwards, yes. So those were basically the three goals, and it was a fantastically hard week that I don't actually need to do again right now.

Niclas [00:05:42] I can imagine. But Just to give people a bit more context. So you'd already done several ultra races before. You'd also won Race Around Austria, right?

Daniel [00:05:53] No, I won Race Across Italy. Then last year I did the Utrecht Ultra XL. That's 1700 kilometers. I came in first there too. So it wasn't a... suicide mission where some crazy guy starts saying he wants to ride long and far without experience, but there was, I think, a pretty solid base.

Björn [00:06:13] Yes, and to put this in context, when I started with Daniel and the fun project, I mean riding a bike this absurdly long, I thought, let's see, it'll be fun. And then we trained for it. I think the first thing we did together at Race Across Italy — what's much more exciting with projects like this: physical performance is important. That's the first thing. But at the end of the day, I'd say, that's the smallest concern. The whole setup around it, which Daniel already mentioned, having people who really A, are on fire for it. Not like 'I'll do it on the side.' 'Oh, I'm just supposed to drive the car,' and so on. But there have to be operational plans, and for a seven-day thing like this, much more. And the athlete's mental attitude, who has to grind through it, that of course also has to be 100 percent. And I always see all these races we did before as test rides for this project. Everything that happened before. All the the mess that happened, like mixing up bottles with nutrition or carb mixtures, or car accidents and this and that. All these things. It was just an extremely steep learning curve, learning the hard way. And when Daniel told me he wanted to do this seven-day project, I said, physically I'm not worried. We just need a structure, and we need a team that functions perfectly. And they pulled that off so incredibly well. Daniel also had the 100 percent right instinct for picking the people who put it into such clear form that it actually worked. They were simply top organized, and I'd say these aren't all cycling freaks, or some aren't even that closely connected to cycling, but they simply pulled off structured processes. I've experienced something similar at Race Across America, there's a four-person or eight-person team, I don't even remember, we worked with them too. They're not the killers on the bike, But they're Excel junkies, I'd say. They worked out procedural plans so incredibly precisely and well that they just rocked the whole thing. And really fast. I think they even have the best time or something. Just because they had a structure... poured into place, and system beats potential or talent at the end of the day, and it was an incredible proof that an individual has to deliver of course, they have to ride, but what was built around it was just you just have to say, world class. I found it really impressive. I drove up, or down actually, for a day and watched it in the night. And it was really cool how it was done.

Niclas [00:08:57] How many people are we talking about, aside from you, Daniel? So how many people would you say were really actively involved, or didn't even have to be active during the event, but were involved beforehand in the planning? Are we talking 10, 15, 20?

Daniel [00:09:12] 14 people were actively involved in the bus. On top of that came Plus of course a doctor, plus a pharmacist who came temporarily. Björn was also there, both remotely and later on site. And then there was also lots of background work. Because I really had many cycling shorts and jerseys and skinsuits. You have to change all of them every twelve hours. Simply for hygiene reasons. That means someone has to... take the dirty stuff, wash it, and the next day it has to be back. And this background work also with food support, technical things — there were certainly another five people additionally in the background who were always on call. And on top of that there was a film crew. Just yesterday evening was the last shooting day. There will be a nationwide cinema film. And there's a cinema distributor who's already, exactly, so the thing is coming. In October at film festivals, and then in February or March of next year it'll come to cinemas nationwide. Plus of course at various festivals and open-air events. And I think the fascinating thing is — I mean, nothing is more boring than a cycling film. You see a guy riding, and as a cycling lover you find that cool for five minutes. And if it's also visually beautiful, then he rides two more minutes of coastal road, you accept that too. But there has to be a story. And the goal of this film is, of course, it's a documentary, unfiltered. How I'll be seen there will also be very interesting. But it's not even really about that... seeing a guy on day one, and then of course on day five, six, seven you're completely destroyed. At the beginning you worry about vanities, how you sit ideally, aero position, how does it look great. On day five or six you look like death itself. But that's not the point either, the point is that people understand, or people even who have nothing to do with cycling understand, what can happen and what situations can arise when people together have a goal and commit to something. Whether it's sporting success, whether it's collecting donations, whether it's having a shared experience. And this film will show it from very different perspectives. That means people will experience what happened in the team bus. People will experience what happened in the background at basecamp. What was going on logistically? What problems came up? And what's very special, and I think this doesn't exist elsewhere at all. We had, I had continuously, whenever I was riding, so simply the complete seven days, I had a mic, earpiece, and each of my companions too. There's a documentary film. Usually the protagonist or the people involved sit afterwards on a little chair and explain the situation. The rough cut is finished by now. I'll see it next week. But everything I've heard so far from Michael — Michael is the documentary filmmaker — he says, we don't need that. Because we have the raw audio seven days, 24 hours, in the can. And I don't need to explain how you're feeling, you just hear that you're throwing up in the second night. Or you hear you saying, damn, what kind of horrible cold is this.

Niclas [00:12:23] So now I'm really hyped, because I think this is going to be super entertaining too. I think some people aren't even aware of this, because when you basically put into words what you're feeling right there, because normally, I think, a normal cyclist, when they do something like this... So if you're riding Race Across Italy, you mostly communicate with yourself in your head. You have this voice and you're talking to yourself somehow. But nobody outside picks that up. But when you're basically communicating with someone during the race and saying, man, I really don't feel like it anymore. Or my crotch has been hurting for an hour now and I can't stand it anymore. Those are the things where you first become aware, man, how... how crazy this actually is right now. How long has he been fighting against this voice in his head that's probably been telling him since day two, 'buddy, stop.'

Björn [00:13:11] And one more thing on that. I said, he built a great system. I'd say, that's the framework you move within. But it's not like it was a walk in the park, it was really at the limit, that the whole thing could go completely down the drain. And maybe we can dive into that briefly.

Daniel [00:13:30] I'd briefly, before we actually approach the whole thing systematically... I think it's really important to say that 90 percent of the time I really did have fun. So it was — I said to myself... He's crazy. I saved up all sorts of podcasts. I compiled music I like to entertain myself throughout this entire week. Because I knew, okay, you're going to be riding for seven days, I don't know how many hours. You need to have something. On day one I listened to 20 minutes of music. That was it. And otherwise, I spent seven days straight communicating exclusively via this duplex radio device, basically like A radio device is usually the deal. You speak and have to wait until the other side responds. But this is a duplex radio. That means you can communicate as a group. Everyone can mute it whenever I want or we want. There are different channels. So total high-tech, awesome stuff. That was, by the way, only through sponsorship that we could pull it off, because the gear is insanely expensive. And I had it in my ear the whole time. And I spent all seven days on the phone with 14 of my best friends. And the experience — what I learned about these people, additionally, even though I've known some of them for 30 or 35 years already. It's completely wild.

Niclas [00:14:51] That actually sounds super interesting, because if you think about it, you're on the phone for seven days straight with people, Just that alone is exhausting. But when you're in such an extreme situation, that's of course distracting and probably really great. If I think about how often 90 minutes of cycling can just fly by when, no idea, you call somebody at the start of the ride and come home after 90 minutes and think, wild, you rode the same loop as always and were on the phone with a buddy you hadn't heard from in maybe four weeks, and you talked about all sorts of things. If you do that with 15 people, the time passes well.

Daniel [00:15:24] Yes, exactly. And the nice thing was, they always took turns. They had fun with it, and it was clear to them: it's their job to entertain me. So ultimately, but maybe now we can also go into the content, I was already struggling with fatigue. I mean, if you're sleeping just one hour a day and not even well, and not at night, then you get tired at some point, right?

Niclas [00:15:46] You can imagine, I think.

Björn [00:15:48] Right, I remember, I was practically always remote and then I saw and got the data, and I was in the WhatsApp group, or occasionally I'd get called, and day one was just Daniel Steinhauser, a complete clockwork, over 700 kilometers ground out. And I was like, oh boy, if this doesn't backfire.

Daniel [00:16:07] I say, I had a different pacing strategy, but that's also... Yes, I know, I'm still convinced of mine, and I don't even think that... I'd do it exactly the same way today. Right.

Niclas [00:16:16] But before we come to that, let's first go into it. So, what route did you ride? Why this route? And then also a bit — I'm guessing — the bike setup, a normal, quote unquote, comfortably built TT setup. But let's dive into these material and route-choice questions a bit before we get to the riding. Because I think that interests people too, because you can't really imagine it... Like, when people normally do, no idea, a normal Race Across Germany, they do it on their normal road bike and get off afterwards completely destroyed. And that's basically only a fraction of what you rode.

Daniel [00:16:50] Yes, that's about the first sixth, yes. Right. So I had... Right, a time-trial bike. I also rode with a disc wheel and a high-profile front wheel. I had several special add-ons that friends of mine 3D-printed. There was a specially made toolbox. There was a kind of shark fin on the back. So really good, and I tested it beforehand. It was really fast too. I had a closed cockpit up front, which was also 3D-printed, and the bike was extremely fast. It was also fun to ride. These 700-something kilometers, I think 740 or so on day one, or 730 — I was at almost no point, actually at no point in these seven days, riding at Fatmax. Never. Instead, I didn't actually even ride in G1. So that's why I think the pacing was really quite relaxed. I rode for a whole day, but never really in the G1 zone. For me, or for us, it was clear: aero beats everything. If you're positioned well on the time-trial bike and you're only pushing, I think, what did I have, about 180 watts on average, that's nothing. I mean, if Fatmax is somewhere around 200, or 60, 70, 80, whatever it is, in an aero position, then 180 watts is very manageable. And as soon as you're lying well on the bike, you're fast. So you're riding somewhere around 35 or 37 km/h, and if you push 10 watts more, you're one km/h faster. But if you sit badly on the bike and you're not aerodynamic, you need massive amounts of extra energy. Right, and on the first day my body was rested, glycogen stores were full. And I was riding totally relaxed. The thing was, during the day the temperatures were super, super good. At night, I froze. The temperature forecast for the first night was different too, even short-term. And it was just one degree. It was late April. So the nights were also extremely long. We had twelve hours of night. And for twelve hours it was one degree with 90 percent humidity. And instead, I rode according to plan. It was really cold and at some point I was just done with the cold. Then we drove to base camp. That's at the football club here. They have their, super cool, that's another story. They just cleared out their locker room for me for a whole week. Showers, I had everything, but I got there at three in the morning. There was a pre-planned process we'd worked out in the schedule, and I was looking forward to a warm shower, and cold water came out. And you'd been freezing on that bike for five or eight hours, and cold water came out.

Niclas [00:19:31] That's absolute hell.

Daniel [00:19:33] Yeah, exactly. And I actually went in under it. And that was, in hindsight, there's always a learning. That's the beautiful thing, and also cool, that you take something from every race. And even now, after the 10th or 15th ultra, I still take something away. And I went under this cold shower, and instead of an hour of deep sleep, that's a cycle for me, just one full sleep cycle, I lay there for an hour with the shivers.

Niclas [00:19:59] Okay, so that throws the whole plan off, actually with that move you kind of threw the plan against the wall for a moment.

Daniel [00:20:05] Yeah exactly, so then an hour of shivering, and of course that was a mistake, and of course today I wouldn't have gone under that shower, but would have said, hey, um. Crew members 1, 2, 3, get undressed, get into the sleeping bag with me, and please warm me up now. And where are the three hot-water bottles? That would have been the right thing. And maybe also to say, come on, that time it takes to fall asleep, until you've warmed up, add that on, and then sleep for an hour fifteen, or lie down for an hour fifteen. But after an hour there was a tap on the shoulder, Daniel, and in that moment I got up, they dressed me, That was also a thing, because outside it was still 1 degree. I mean, from 3 to 4 AM there's no temperature change. And you have to put everything on. So from getting up, from the shivering, you have to put on all the winter gear. And of course that costs time. And then the party's huge when you set off at 4:15 AM and it's dark outside and you're back... it's still cold and you set off again, and you know, okay, sunrise is maybe 7:30, the next three hours will be nasty, and everyone says, yeah awesome, look at this sunrise, and you think, damn, I don't care, it's just cold right now.

Niclas [00:21:16] Right. I think everyone can relate, I don't know, for me it's, when I get up in the morning and have to get straight on the bike, no matter what I'm wearing, I'm cold. And when I think, you've only slept an hour, your body's completely shut down, you have to get dressed and go out in one degree, man, your hands, feet, probably your face, everything just burns and you shiver like crazy, right? Yeah.

Daniel [00:21:37] Yeah, on the bike it was okay, but it's uncomfortable, you just have cold fingers, your toes go numb at some point, of course you have overshoes and everything, but yeah, at some point you forget about it, it's fun even though it's cold, but those were the 10 percent of the time that I enjoyed differently, yeah.

Niclas [00:21:52] Enjoyed differently sounds good.

Daniel [00:21:54] Right. And on the second day the... That was of course a drop in kilometers, because this dilemma, in quotes, of not having had that good deep sleep, that dragged on for a day. So at midday, for example, I did another 15 or 20 minutes of nap. And what I can do is... if you tell me here, lie down on the floor and sleep, it doesn't matter to me, wherever, I can always sleep. And that's a big advantage in this situation. You're extremely tired at some point, that was midday, 2 PM, and I just lie down briefly in the bus, sleep for a quarter of an hour, and then it continues. And you notice the sleep phases really do bring energy back, yeah.

Niclas [00:22:35] How was the whole thing originally planned? So you planned throughout to sleep one hour at night, and then when you need it, a quarter-hour nap in the bus? Or were these naps also planned in, like, during the day, you ride for an hour at night, then ride for six hours, nap a quarter hour, ride six hours, nap a quarter hour?

Daniel [00:22:53] Yeah, the experience with ultras... You can plan a lot. Reality will always catch up with you. The plan was this one hour at night, so continuously, as a fixed point, and then power naps as needed. You also can't say, six hours, because the question is when you're tired. And also when you're really tired, then it goes quickly, but not past the point where you're too tired to sleep. Right. But of course I had this disaster in there. That wasn't an ideal start for the seven days. On the second day I rode, I think, 540 kilometers, so noticeably less. That... yeah... And still it was just that day where I wasn't in the big flow anymore, it was already shaped by fatigue. And at some point, going from the first into the second night, it got cold again, and then there was this thing, okay, the stomach picks the weakest link, and that's definitely, The body picks the weakest link. And for me that was my stomach that night. In the second night I threw up five times. Over about three hours.

Niclas [00:24:00] And these 90 percent... Were you riding while doing it?

Daniel [00:24:04] Yeah, the first time yes. The other times you actually have to stop, yeah, right.

Niclas [00:24:09] Yeah, so I think that's a fair question, because I could see you doing it while riding, no idea, at 100 watts, half hanging on the aerobars, and still throwing up.

Daniel [00:24:18] I did that once at the Race Across Italy, yeah exactly, we did it on the go, but the TT position isn't very comfortable for that. No, that was real crisis management then. The 90 percent, you can enjoy them, and the 10 percent, and I think the situation belongs to that, I wouldn't wish it on any other person. You have to have a good mindset and really be convinced everything will be alright again.

Niclas [00:24:41] Did you, for a situation like this, because I mean, in the end, you've ridden so many ultras, you must have known, okay, I'll end up in a situation where I have to convince myself again, I'm getting back on this bike and riding on, where anyone normal, probably, if someone from outside sees you and you throw up five times, an outsider will say, yeah okay, Daniel, stop, that's enough here.

Daniel [00:25:01] That was totally cool. That was... The profile was, well, the route was clear as well. I didn't want a sterile route. I don't know, you could ride in the US or Dubai. No idea, USA maybe a bit at altitude to reduce resistance. But I wanted to do it at home. So here in Bad Waldsee and the region, because I also want to prove... you can do wild things and don't have to travel around the world for that, and at the same time it was also the entry ticket to be able to realise it with my friends at all, because it's clear, some of them, depending on how many shifts they had, took a week off, when I think, you have a leadership position, you have a family, and that's really something, and I think you can't really get greater appreciation than a friend who has a family taking a week of vacation for you, so he can sit in the car with you for twelve hours, five times. So the family and the wives also have to be on board and understand what's happening.

Niclas [00:25:58] They're sacrificing their family vacation.

Daniel [00:26:01] Yeah, exactly. And the route went up and down in a wavy pattern. We picked the flattest route here in the region, but there's no top-flat route. That's just not the profile. And this vomiting was on a rise. And already on the second day, or in the second night, there were really a lot of people at the roadside. That was crazy. And a very good friend of mine was standing there. She came again and again, at some point later she also brought coffee for the team and so on. And she stood there motivated with her giant speaker. And every time I came by, full gas. And sometimes she stood there alone at night. And I threw up up there. My stomach hurt. I felt really sick. And 300 metres further on there was a right-hand curve. So she didn't see it. I got back on, I rode past her. She's cheering, yeah! And I think, if you knew what just happened up there. So awesome! But that was of course also a motivational boost for me. So, In my understanding there was this option, as you also described, of not continuing. So my job is to keep riding, and my job during that week was also to endure things and implement them as best as possible.

Niclas [00:27:18] That means you'd also clearly said to yourself in advance, this possibility of, okay, I'll stop here, I won't continue, that doesn't exist. So you had it clearly figured out in your head beforehand, okay, no matter what, I keep riding.

Daniel [00:27:30] Yeah, otherwise I don't even need to start or show up. I think it's really important for people, and it's not an ultra-cycling thing, it can just be someone wants to do a bike marathon, someone wants to ride their first 100 kilometres, or someone wants to be successful in their career, or take some exam, or additional training. You should be clear, why do I want this? And when you decide on it, then it makes sense to go into it with reason and appropriate preparation, and also a strategy, so the motives are clear, so it's clear, why am I doing this? And at the same time there was this this was my fifth or sixth fundraiser, we also voted in the team, quite democratically, on who we're raising money for. That was the children's hospice in Bad Grönenbach. And I know the institution. We've been supporting members there for many years, my wife and I. And those are children who can go there for a certain period of time, or families who have children with life-limiting diagnoses. It's clear, the children will die, in whatever time frame. But they also don't have the option to say, hey, this is getting hard right now, I'm stopping. And I built that up beforehand as an additional mental support, that there will really be fucking hard times, And Daniel won't stop. It's not a question of whether I'll make the record. That was of course the goal. But the question is, I would have finished the seven days in any case. Even if it had been clear, and it would have been entirely unromantic, that the record wasn't possible and you'd end up with only 2000 kilometres. But I think that's also what Yeah, I don't owe anyone, but my team prepared, and still I had a clear agreement with my team, I don't owe you anything, you're there because you wanted an experience of your own. That was the whole arrangement, also not, I have to do it to satisfy others. I really put that aside, it was about, for me, a limit, together with my friends for a good cause. And my friends were there because they also wanted an experience, and to stand up for a good cause. I think it's really important that we don't have to ride. is the most beautiful thing in the world, when you get to do it. When you have to do it, it becomes the hardest thing, especially in ultra-cycling.

Niclas [00:29:46] Yeah, that's probably true.

Björn [00:29:48] Yeah, and I have to say, the team, from what I saw, Everyone had real drive. It was just this bigger whole that was being carried. And it was insanely fun, and it was also insanely fun, going through those hard moments together, and also in the WhatsApp groups or phone calls, all the things that Daniel didn't even get to see, what happened there, everyone grew a bit beyond themselves. I found that really fascinating. And yeah, everyone gave everything within their scope, so the whole thing would run. I just found it really impressive. And I mean, I also work in other areas where it's about peak performance. And I have to say, every one of us is capable of it, as Daniel put it so nicely, and I think about the children's hospice, with, I have a child who's definitely not going to grow old, I can't take a break there. I can't just say, I'll forget about it now, yeah. That's a really good image, a powerful image, it just impressed me strongly. And the team carried this spirit somehow, so that everyone felt, I have responsibility in my area but I can rely on the others. That was really cool. Even when things, I mean, there are quite a few things, didn't go as you'd want, but it always worked out somehow, because everyone was flexible enough and could rely on each other, so it would run again, yeah, and then you just do an incredible amount to keep the whole thing running, whether it's, at night on site, people... figuring out, gloves are missing, then something got posted on Instagram, then gloves were being searched for in the region, and so on and so on. It was just insanely fun how so much could be achieved in such a short time, first through good planning, and second through a high degree of commitment and flexibility.

Niclas [00:31:37] Now if we look at the week, because you said earlier yourself, the wattage numbers weren't anything crazy. Probably in the sum, pulling that off over seven days, definitely, but so people can still get a sense of the performance, reflected in numbers. Do you have, like, how many calories did you burn on average per day? How much did you eat? What did you actually eat? You said earlier, mostly liquid. I know it, I've never ridden anything this wild, but I know it from, let's say, 10, 10.5 hour races. There you can still get by on liquid nutrition alone. But I already started dreaming about pizza and fries in the last two hours. I don't even want to imagine it. You can't eat that. That would completely crash your stomach when you're already throwing up. So what was the strategy over the seven days? Because I mean, over seven days, no idea, only eating liquid, I imagine that's unbelievably hard too. At some point eating something small or the like. What did it look like?

Daniel [00:32:38] First of all, you shouldn't do anything you haven't already tried out. So in the training beforehand, it wasn't seven days liquid, it was ten days liquid, because I started three days before.

Björn [00:32:49] We'd tried that out beforehand too.

Niclas [00:32:51] Yeah, right. You'd already done ten days liquid beforehand?

Daniel [00:32:56] No, five days. And that was really hard. Is it awesome? When you... you have no enjoyment, it's totally, the stuff doesn't taste good to you, first of all it's complete nutrition, so there's Fresubin and so on, and it has different flavours, so, but you take the stuff during training beforehand, test it out, and it's a bit pointless, sure, you know, okay, you have to test it out, but it doesn't really make sense, you have to be very motivated, at some point, then to ride the seven days, that you do it in training. That's so awesome. Great, of course, if you're single, then in the office here I take the stuff and knock it back, and so I sit down at the dinner table with my family, everything's laid out there, and the problem is, the calorie density is so high, you have a little bottle, that's 200 millilitres, you can chug it down in a second and get up and keep going. That was dinner. Oh, so awesome. That's actually, right, and then for me it tastes like cappuccino and chocolate, it doesn't taste bad, but it has this calorie density. You can just take it and the enjoyment is over. Instead of having a nice porridge with fresh, like right now, raspberries and strawberries and whatever, and you enjoy the taste, you have something to chew, you have something to do. And that's how the five days of preparation went. And I really struggled with it at first, but it was clear, you have to do it, so I just do it. And then the three days before those seven days, that was totally fine for me, because on the one hand I knew what it was, and I also saw the direct point of it. That was maybe already a kind of mental preparation for what was coming. And actually the plan was, essentially a certain amount of Fresubin, we chose Fresubin, Fresubin per hour, basically 100 millilitres, and on top of that maltodextrin. In total that came to 80 grams of carbs plus protein and fat, which is in this Fresubin, a bit of sodium, so salt as a supplement, that was it. And then real life shows, you always have to have a backup. And the backup has always been at every ultra race, when the stomach rebels at some point, because you've been filling it to the max, if you have a support vehicle, then you can just, rice, white rice on top. And that's what it was over the seven days. 95 percent of the time I fed myself liquid. And on top of that there were rice balls. Just cooked rice, we made it into balls, and they gave them to me and I ate the ball. And then it was always a combo at some point, white rice balls and Cola.

Niclas [00:35:26] Whoa, no. But was the rice maybe at some point cooked with, no idea, vegetable broth, so it would taste a bit different? No, no, no.

Daniel [00:35:35] and the dose of the malto was actually, you had to put quite a lot of salt into the malto, especially at night it was really cold, so you couldn't have much liquid in there, it was already a thick concentrate, and the malto and the salt and, of course, we also put a bit of flavour in, but that was more, wow, really tough to drink. And there I took Fresubin more to top it up so it tasted a bit better. Yeah, right.

Niclas [00:35:59] No joke, I think, for me, when I think about it now, this is by far the most impressive thing. Because I don't know... I don't know if you've picked up on this in your, in quotes, age, sorry, but there's this ultra-running scene on YouTube, right now it's completely going through the roof, and if you deal with Last Man, Last Soul Ultra, and all that stuff I've thought a few times, when I look at what those guys eat and how they complain about stomach problems and what kinds of problems they have, I think, yeah, if you'd set it up professionally, you wouldn't have 50 percent of your problems. Because if you look at the best ultra athletes in the world, they just do it, they have a clear strategy. Like, for example, I mean, it's been known for a while, Christoph Sauser did that, or no, his name is Strasser, right? Strasser, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Sauser was the cross-country rider. Right. He's done these 24-hour things before and he basically said, yeah, he does it completely liquid, no solid food. And I think that's a level of mental toughness, basically feeding yourself only liquid for ten days and pulling that through, that's a different level compared to what you might have seen in the ultra scene, at least in running on YouTube from these, in quotes, influencer athletes, because that's... Yeah, completely bananas. They eat pizza in between and all that kind of nonsense. And you're just, yeah, rice, Coke, liquid feed.

Björn [00:37:20] It was great. Malte. And we deliberately decided against taking in these crazy high carb amounts. We said, okay, this amount is enough. Then we presumably don't have the stomach issues. I think we ate one or two bananas when the potassium dropped a bit. We always took blood samples. And then it was a bit like, do we take tablets or effervescent tablets or whatever. And I said, maybe we have a very ripe banana lying around somewhere. And then we did that, and interestingly it worked really well. Next time around everything was fine again. So that worked really well. Keep it as simple as possible, yeah.

Niclas [00:38:04] So over the seven days, you already said there was a doctor and a pharmacist involved, they took blood samples during the breaks, sent them straight to the lab and said, hey, check this and that, keep an eye on it?

Daniel [00:38:15] So, there was, well, there's Tobi, our, I'll call him team physician. He was totally committed as our team doctor. That was just incredibly valuable. And it was important to him to be able to accompany it medically. For that he needs certain baseline data. And also for the science.

Björn [00:38:35] Tobi and I want to make something out of it too. We've already collected and looked at a lot of data.

Daniel [00:38:41] Because of course in this context there's hardly... really any blood samples out there, because who rides at the limit for many days with little sleep and lets themselves get blood drawn? Record attempts are relatively rare, and we had an arrangement here in the lab, mainly with the hospital and via the hospital's emergency lab, we had the blood values back within an hour. What was totally interesting, well no idea, in the CK value, which on the first day was somewhere around, or the normal range is at 100, at some point he was at 1,100, and on the third day, or on the third or fourth day it was at 11,000.

Björn [00:39:17] Several heart attacks later.

Daniel [00:39:20] And to also, ultimately, the whole project is also about saying you can do crazy things and you can search for the limit, but there's still the responsibility for yourself, for family, for friends. Nothing's worse than when in a project like this actual lasting damage occurs. Ultimately every crew member relies on it, or wants to, well, nobody wants anything to happen. And it's really important that if you do crazy things like this, you still put it on a sensible footing.

Niclas [00:39:49] And that's how we had... Would he have had the chance to say, okay, we have to stop now?

Daniel [00:39:54] Yeah, that was the... Yeah, maybe we should briefly go through the days content-wise afterwards so people understand what was going on. Let's put that question on hold for a moment. Ultimately we were able to react. We knew, well, there was one night where we were very close to abandoning. But not because I decided it. I would never have decided that. Björn knows me way too long to know that in this... It was clear, if the doctor and the team together decide, Daniel, can you keep riding, then we stop. Conversely, for me it was also clear, I have to endure a bit of toughness and pain. Sometimes a bit shorter, sometimes a bit longer. But... I would never make the decision to stop. But because I knew I could hand over the responsibility. Because we exchanged so much beforehand, I always call it trust through preparation, we had exchanged so much that it was clear where our red line was. And during those seven days we kept moving very close to that red line, again and again. So maybe, we talked about the first day, the second day was actually really tough, because of lack of sleep, and then the night went as planned, so I got the hour and a half of sleep, going into the second and third night, and yeah, so the stomach issues, the vomiting, we basically solved that through sleep, and then the stomach was stable again and it was never an issue again for the whole seven days, which is really wild, because the first night you have an hour of chills instead of an hour of sleep, and the second night you throw up five times. And that is Over seven days that can get really long. I wouldn't want to imagine it. But then we managed to turn it around.

Björn [00:41:31] I still remember, you said, two, three days the body rebelled and made a fuss. Now he's found his groove. He can keep riding.

Niclas [00:41:40] That's just bananas. Think about it, if you broke that down to a normal race. Most people can picture it when they ride a 4-5 hour race. Just think about it, In a 4-5 hour race, it's the first half hour to first hour. You start, the first 10 minutes are good, and after that all the crap that can possibly happen happens in the next 20 to 60 minutes. No idea, the derailleur flies off, you get a flat, you crash, and you still keep going. That's how it is, and then you don't just keep going for... one day, you didn't just have to keep going for two hours, you had to keep going for another five days. That's really impressive.

Daniel [00:42:19] Yeah, no, it's not have-to, it's want-to. I think that's the difference. Some people said to me, hey, you have to keep riding for another three days. No, it's not have-to. I can stop any time. If I have to do something, then it sucks. If I'm allowed to and can, and that's... I think that's a really important distinction to also keep going, for example I would never drop out of a five-hour race just because I mess up the first hour and something goes wrong. Then I come in last for the team, but I finish the thing. That's my personal mindset.

Niclas [00:42:53] I have to honestly say, it's really nice to hear that, because... I can understand many pro athletes, from that perspective I understand why they drop out of races because they say, okay, I'm saving myself for the next race. But from the outside, that's why for example I found Jan Frodeno back then in Hawaii, when he had to fight through his back problems and somehow still brought it home, I think those are actually the moments that count, because it shows, okay, we're pro athletes, we can do this unbelievably fast, but we can also feel like crap and we still push through, because you hear it from, well I hear it from a lot of athletes, they feel unbelievably bad during the race, but because they say, okay, my wife is sacrificing the family vacation here, I have to finish, because I want to give that back to them, and I don't want to be the guy who says, okay, we traveled here for a week and, ah no, I'm not feeling great right now and I'm quitting. That's what I find really the coolest thing about the whole matter, that you say, okay, no matter what happens, you push through, and you pushed through and still got the world record. That's completely bananas.

Daniel [00:43:54] Yeah, and day 3 and 4 we actually had pretty well under control. Basically it was always kind of an alternation. The nights were of course rather the challenge. And 3, 4 went well, and then there was, or rather from day 3 there was an effect we hadn't at all anticipated. Namely, this was deepest idyll. Upper Swabia, no traffic. And we were riding past blooming rapeseed fields. It hadn't rained for ten days, which normally you'd celebrate, because you don't have to ride in the rain. So you don't have to ride in the rain. There was just so much pollen and Saharan dust in the air. I'm not an allergy sufferer. In no way, not a bit. But we had basically half a centimeter of pollen dust and Saharan dust every hour. on the windshield. And that's what I was riding through all day right along these fields, hay balers were running and stirred it all up again. And from the third day on my nose was completely blocked. It was like plastered shut. You can't imagine it. It was just completely blocked. And that also increased, so it kept moving down into the lungs more and more. And in the, I think fourth to fifth night, that was really the critical moment where I thought, that's it now. At some point we, this is really cool, we had the course, there were three courses that we swapped situationally a bit based on wind and variety, and we switched to one course. where the office of my main sponsor is. And then it was like, we no longer switched back to base camp in Heisterkirch, but I simply got dropped off at my sponsor's office. At night. And they were, it was fascinating, it was so cool. It's 15 people there in the main office at DC Cargo in Reutte. And they would come out, every 30 minutes I'd pass by and they'd come out from work, hey, he's coming, they'd run out to the course, cheer, I'd ride past, then they'd go back to work. They basically had interval parties. Then I was lying there and in that moment it was the shakiest situation. I had 38.9 degrees temperature. At two in the morning. I was completely exhausted. At that point my neck was so far gone that my head could barely hold itself up. That means, at some point I wasn't aerodynamic anymore, I was like an upright tent on my TT bike that had been perfected to the very end. Then, yeah, my nose was blocked, my lungs were coated, I was wheezing extremely. Right, but otherwise I was doing pretty well. My hands were also a bit numb by then.

Niclas [00:46:23] That sounds so crazy.

Daniel [00:46:25] I was completely tired, completely knocked out, completely done, and I lay there and thought, okay, temperature 37.9, okay, nose blocked, okay, and then I'd basically spit out mucus, dark mucus, where you see, okay, exactly this pollen snot that you've been breathing in for the last days and We basically zoomed in on it with a microscope and phone. There was blood in the discharge. So, and then I thought, Tobi came in, our doctor, and he looked at it, and I thought, damn, I think it's happened now, they won't let me back on the bike. And luckily we also had current blood results that we had taken an hour or two hours before. And then he looks at it and says, strange. So he can rule out a viral and bacterial infection. It must be coming from the pollen dust. He can't explain it medically any other way. From his point of view nothing speaks against it. And it wasn't clear to him until the very end, until a week after the finish, what a decision that was of his, how courageous that was. to stand there as a doctor and say, okay, the guy hasn't slept, his neck is shot, he has elevated temperature, his nose is blocked and he's wheezing and basically spitting out dark mucus, I'm letting him keep riding. That takes so much courage, Björn was of course also involved. Yeah, Tobi and I had many phone calls.

Björn [00:47:41] It was really hot and then we said, there's nothing there and so on, and then we said, this can really come from pollen and similar things. And then we decided, okay, let's go for it. We then completely restructured the pacing strategy, so that first of all, we always noticed, sure, when you sleep, you feel better, so we built in a bit more sleep phases for a while. And then later not anymore, then you just pushed through. And those plans got thrown out again too, as it goes. But at least having some structure gives you security. But definitely, Tobi then said, there's nothing there, go for it.

Daniel [00:48:20] Yeah, and yeah, you too. And I think that takes so much courage. And it was still medically supervised. And I was lying there and he says in that moment, yeah, from a medical standpoint nothing speaks against it, and I was lying there and I basically, I know this for sure because I asked several people what the situation was like. So my father was one of the crew members. I asked him afterwards, what was the situation like for you? I also have two boys. I wouldn't want my son lying there like that. And in the moment when he said, from a medical standpoint nothing speaks against it, I got up and said, hey guys, what are you doing? Get me dressed, let's keep going. And that was at three in the morning. And I think, so, then they dressed me and we kept riding. And then, that was day five and six, there was still Saharan dust and pollen dust. That was just a constant companion of the whole thing. I'm also sure that with, yeah well, sleep and cold, the biggest final boss, that's what we always called it. And then a storm rolled in on top. So then there was somehow a five to six wind-strength storm. And it's fun when you have problems with your neck and you're not fresh anyway, and you're riding a TT bike and you have to grip the bars hard so that with every side gust it doesn't rip the thing right out from under you.

Niclas [00:49:45] Did you at least take out the disc wheel and maybe switch to lower profile wheels?

Daniel [00:49:50] Nope. You could have, but I consciously decided against it. It's still faster.

Björn [00:49:56] The lap we then chose a bit, toward the end we picked a different lap that wasn't quite as wind-exposed. And again, on the medical situation, we also always had the power data and heart rate data and so on. There was nothing to see that there was anything weird, like, no idea, atrial fibrillation happens in these things sometimes too. But it was all, everything was running fine on that basic level. Sure, drop in performance, but all explainable. So from that standpoint you could just push through.

Daniel [00:50:28] Yeah, and then it was, yeah exactly, then we set up a plan. I also said, yeah, we need a plan. And then Fabian said, one of my crew, Björn, said, okay, now we need a plan, and he'll run the numbers. And then it was, everything that's luxury is cut now. So, you know, you can't hold your head up anymore, Niclas. And basically the physio came once a day and kept you alive. And now you only have two and a half, three more days of riding. Now luxury gets cut, because... Otherwise it doesn't work out with the record, with those numbers. So, we even talked on the phone, right? On the way you told me, yeah, from now on no more luxury. Then I asked, Julian, the physio, yeah, he's luxury.

Björn [00:51:14] Ah, okay. The thing was, at some point, I had run through it and thought, uh oh, now we have a bit more of a performance drop. The thing will, at that point I would have said, whoa, that's, I think it's not doable anymore. Now we have to squeeze out everything possible. And we had another discussion about whether we should take blood again. Then I said, it's necessary, we have to do it. And then everything that was luxury got cut.

Niclas [00:51:43] But especially this holding your head, holding your neck. I think that... I saw it in the documentary about the rider who did it just before you. He had to hold his head... then basically with bungee cords. He had a TT helmet on, they attached a bungee cord to the back of the TT helmet and then again to the bib or jersey pocket or whatever, so he could hold his head in TT position. Take people through this process for a moment, because that must have been a slight, steady decline over the seven days. And how do you do it, when Björn, that slave driver, also cuts the physio in the last two days. So, because the physio probably keeps the muscles halfway open, right?

Daniel [00:52:22] Yeah, but that was only very briefly a bit better. Seven days is long. So the first days, you're actually not even riding at the limit. Except when you have certain... time-related problems or problems that are somehow time-limited, but you never go so much to the limit that you say, I couldn't ride tomorrow, and the power numbers aren't that high either. Meaning, basically you're also saving up something in a way. Um, to also survive the seven days. And that was also the moment when it's clear, okay, now nothing gets saved anymore, now we go to the limit, and ultimately how I come across the finish line after seven days is completely irrelevant. Main thing is you cross the finish. Main thing is you cross the finish, but at that point it doesn't matter anymore, If you have to ride another day, you have to keep reserves. In everything possible. But the goal is, after seven days to search for the limit, and the reserves are used up. And that's what we then did. So in the last night, or before the last night, the last two and a half days, I rode a lot more time than the two days before. There were just short sleep windows and the last night, or the last 36 hours, I had, I came to the finish at 8 in the morning, I basically had a night's sleep of one hour, then had a power nap, a quarter hour, and then I rode all day, and in the evening at 20:00 I got so tired, we said, now you sleep for another hour, so I had a only 13 more hours to ride. Now you sleep for another hour, because it just wasn't working anymore. And that was also cool. We wanted to stay on that course that was good. And the overnight at base camp, that was always a bit like, you have to ride 6 kilometers there, 6 kilometers back with a bit more rolling terrain and so on. And so we rode there, and there were 1000 people standing along that course, along those 15 kilometers. They were having a party, a marching band came, all sorts of things. It was completely crazy. And then we asked, hey, we need hot water somehow. Hey, who has hot water? On the next lap there were three teapots of hot water standing there. And then we said, hey, Daniel needs to sleep now somehow. Where can he sleep? But it has to be really hot, because it's cold and so on. And yeah, we'll fire up the tiled stove. And then I just slept in the house right on the course. I didn't know those people. I did go there in running kit afterwards, of course, and thanked them. But they stood there all night until four in the morning, they had some open fire, poured themselves a drink. It was awesome, that was there. Yeah, exactly. And then I went in, slept. And an hour later I was back on the bike, kept riding, and then that was actually the last night, that was really uncomfortable, because it was clear, okay, I have about an hour of buffer on the record, roughly. If the pacing keeps working, you have no mechanicals, no collapse, you can't afford anything. So it was really tight. And then at 2 a.m., yeah, sometime around 2 a.m., I got so tired and then at some point I say, hey guys, do you see the red light too? And they're like, uh, no. I say, yes, up ahead, look, the red light. And they're like, uh, no, Daniel. I say, there's a red light burning up ahead. They're like, uh, Daniel. Ah, now we see it too. And there were these guys standing somewhere on the grass lighting flares. Man, how awesome. I rode past and I didn't think, oh, cool, the flares. I thought, thank god they were standing there. But I thought I was just imagining it.

Niclas [00:56:04] You thought you were hallucinating.

Daniel [00:56:06] Yeah, exactly. After the three in the back confirmed, so we're not crazy, and I was so relieved. Right. And that kept me going for another hour. It was such a wow moment. Wild, there are guys I don't even know standing there with flares. Yeah. And then at some point I got really tired again, so it just wasn't working anymore. And then that was the wake-up. Maximum heat in the van. All windows and doors closed. We need 10 minutes to turn this van into a sauna. And then after 10 minutes they pulled over, they drove ahead briefly. I was basically pulled off the TT bike, straight to the back, trunk open, thrown in, with helmet, with glasses, with shoes, with everything. We took an 11-minute break stop and I slept for over 10 minutes. on the last night. You went in, fell asleep, back out. Exactly. And Michael Scheier, the documentary filmmaker, who observed all those nights, or all those days, who has all the sound recordings, he says it was totally fascinating, even when you did power-naps and whatever, you went in, and then you heard one deep breath, and then silence. And then someone knocks on your chest, like Daniel, and in that moment you're not like, what is it, instead you got up, got on the bike and rode on. And he said, I could never have imagined that. So yeah, and that was this motivation, which I think is called intrinsic motivation. You're not being forced onto the bike from outside. That was the horror or the challenge in the field, for my helpers, that they'd say, no idea, how do we wake you up? That never really happened.

Björn [00:57:46] Right, and then... The people at the roadside, they said, he was sleeping, then he got up, came back out, an hour later, peace sign, morning morning, off we go, that kind of thing. But how does that even work? How does he do that? He's just in a good mood. That comes from within him. He's got this nuclear reactor inside him.

Daniel [00:58:10] That's so awesome.

Björn [00:58:11] That was really cool.

Daniel [00:58:13] Yeah, then at some point in the morning we had the record, so about two hours before that. And then it was actually the case, that's when I heard rustling for the first time in the back of the van. And then I said, hey, what have you actually got to eat back there? I mean, I had the record now.

Niclas [00:58:28] From that moment on, was there this craving in your head, okay, I want to eat something proper now?

Daniel [00:58:34] Then I said, well, gummy bears or chocolate. I said, you have chocolate, awesome, what kind do you have? And then the passenger, who handed me everything the whole time, he gave me this huge chocolate package and he gave me two squares. And then I said, no, no, the other side. And then I basically just ate a whole bar of chocolate quickly. A whole one? Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, exactly, that was inhaled quickly, and 10 minutes later, I mean, you have this calorie turnover, it's just, you burn 100,000 calories or more in that week and you're used to eating. And I give you one bar of chocolate and ten minutes later, what else do you have? And that continued all the way to the finish. How awesome! And then, that was really crazy. And I think, I don't know how many athletes get to experience that or can experience that. It was already totally crazy during those seven days, also at the roadside. And that wasn't even planned. We had no idea... How would I arrive after these seven days? What happens then? And then in downtown Bad Waldsee, they set up the start and finish arch, I run two of my own events, they took the finish arch of my Bad Waldsee Cycling Marathon and set it up in the town center. And then I rode into the town center and there weren't just a thousand people standing there. DC Cargo had parked their truck there, and that was our stage, and then they got microphones and speakers, and I rode up there and a thousand people were standing there to welcome me. And that was totally crazy, and what was really beautiful is that everyone understood that I'm the guy on the bike, but that I'm also just one puzzle piece of this whole system. every helper was celebrated there just as much as I was. And that's the message that I, or we, wanted to convey. It's not about, or I don't need a stage. I mean, you do enjoy the ceremony of course. That Anyone who says, I think you can't do top-level or competitive sport without being a bit vain. But I try to keep that to a minimum and channel it into energy and joy in doing things. But what my friends experienced there, just how the atmosphere was at the finish, it wasn't about, of course we celebrated the record, but I don't know, I think it would have been the same, at least similar, if the record hadn't quite worked out. Because the record is really just a number, which will be improved at some point anyway. And it's nice to have that somehow, and you have a Guinness World Record, you have a certificate and you're happy. But it's also about the experience. And then we were standing there, and someone from the children's hospice was there, who also got to speak, and no idea, SWR was there, so it was somehow totally crazy, yeah, exactly. Those are the experiences I actually saved, this feeling of having gotten through the hard moments is really beautiful in retrospect, and I know exactly how my friends helped me there. I mean, I know how I felt when I was throwing up, or when I was so cold and when I said, hey guys, you have to entertain me now, I'm so tired. It just became more and more of a constant fight against various challenges, and I imagine it like this, when I'm on a trip to the Allgäu with my friends in 30 years and we're sitting there in some hut and we say, hey, you know, back then 2026, when we set off. I think those are the stories that will bond us and connect us forever, and probably even more than we already were.

Niclas [01:02:02] That's really very inspiring, I have to say honestly. You said just now that you started eating in that last hour on the bike. But how were you physically after the week? How long did you need to be somewhat back among the living? How long did you sleep? How were the days afterwards? What did you eat?

Daniel [01:02:20] How much? Maybe just briefly... At some point they asked me, casually, what would you like to eat at the finish? I said, yeah, yeah, Pizza and Kässpätzle. Yeah, classic. I mean, Kässpätzle is really awesome. And pizza. And I came into the finish and there was the pizza box. There's also a photo of me where I'm hoisting the pizza box up. That was my trophy, you know? And then I basically inhaled the pizza and I inhaled the Kässpätzle portion while I was on stage. So that's exactly it. So then... I went straight to the physio, after the procedure and the interviews were done, because he has his practice just 200 meters away, Mr. Julian. And afterwards I basically walked back, then it was time to head to the car, and then I saw all my friends at the pub. The weather was great outside and I sat down there with them. You didn't fall asleep right away? No, no, I I sat there for another two hours with them. So I didn't drink alcohol, I wouldn't have managed that, but they were drinking a beer and so on. I mean, my friends are sitting there, I'm not going home. And then it got really wild. So in retrospect, the first one or two days, one or two nights, wow, I don't want to say horror, but they were really hard, and I was really glad when the nights were over. It wasn't like, lots of people asked me, how many hours did you sleep to catch up? It was more like, I woke up every 30 minutes or every two hours at the latest at night. My brain had to reconnect and process everything. I hadn't really slept for a week, so my brain could process it. So it was like, I was lying there and it felt like, I can only describe it a bit, it was like, I had these flashes and I kept having memories, and my brain just had to network and first check what happened during that week. And those were the first two nights. And in addition I woke up every two, two and a half hours because I was just hungry. So ultimately after that... A bit spooky, honestly.

Björn [01:04:22] That sounds kind of... What if it stayed that way? Yeah. I could handle the hunger, but not these flashes.

Daniel [01:04:30] Yeah, flash is maybe the wrong word, but it was just this memory. I actually think my brain needed time to process it. And on the third night I really got into sleeping, then it got a bit better. But even on the ninth night I still slept eleven hours at night and three times two hours during the day.

Niclas [01:04:48] So that means, the first days you basically stayed in bed 24-7 and first... No, no, no, no, no.

Daniel [01:04:54] I was in bed and then... You went training again too. You can't even... So, we have two boys, they're 10 and 12. So, and... In the morning I was awake and then we traditionally do it like this, before they go to school, we sit together at the table and we prepare breakfast somehow, my wife and I, and then we have breakfast together somehow. And I did that somehow, and afterwards I was here around the house somehow and went for walks now and then. But I don't know how often I was in the room and I didn't even know what I wanted anymore. So I was completely foggy. I couldn't do anything. couldn't engage my brain. It wasn't usable. I was lost in life. I think, these accusations against Gen Z, they definitely don't apply at all, I know so many young people who are real rockers and doers, but the accusation is that they can't get anything done. I still had to write an article or a report for Guinness for example.

Niclas [01:05:49] Right in the days after?

Daniel [01:05:51] Yeah, at some point. And I knew, I had the whole week to do it. I couldn't do it. I knew, I basically couldn't execute it. I had a concentration level the week after of 10 minutes per day. I sat here at the laptop somehow. to prepare events somehow. I just sat there, but I didn't get anything done. It was totally wild. And then at some point I switched strategies and thought, you're not going to get anything done anyway. Finally the boys came home from school somehow, then we had lunch and then I said, hey guys, come on, let's go into town and get ice cream. And then we went there and had ice cream and sat right in the middle of town It's really nice. Bad Waldsee has a historic old town and there's not that much going on there. And then I had a boy on my left, a boy on my right, ice cream in hand. And then we ate the ice cream and afterwards, we sat there for one or two hours, chatted and talked a bit. And we watched the people walking by. So it was totally... wild, we had an awesome time somehow. So we spent time with each other, we talked, but how efficiently my life normally runs, I mean, you know that, as an athlete, as a competitive athlete, as a person who has things to do, you can't really afford to sit in town for two hours three or four days a week, eating an ice cream and pointlessly watching people. You might do that once a week if things are going well. And even then, you have to make time for it, exactly. And we had a good time, also good family time, but I got nothing done. And then at some point it really was, on day 12 it was like, Up until then I had to really strain, so really meticulously strain to think, but not even for complex mathematical processes, but for the simplest things in life. How do you make yourself the muesli, or you want to open the mailbox, for that you need a key. So

Niclas [01:07:42] Colloquially, I'd say you reached a new level of grayness.

Daniel [01:07:46] Lost in life, yeah, exactly.

Niclas [01:07:49] Really went into the black.

Daniel [01:07:51] That was more than black. Like hole training. I had, afterwards, we also did blood tests and so on, and it was also interesting that these blood values, TK values too, That was brutally high, and we did cardiological examinations, and they all normalized very, very quickly.

Björn [01:08:09] You sent me a message twelve days later, We hadn't had, I think we hadn't been in touch for ten, twelve days. Yeah. I said, well, I didn't want to anyway. Then you wrote, I've been cognitively off track like never before. And anyone who knows Daniel knows that Daniel is actually a very organized person. That was rather unusual. And yeah, then I knew, that was quite an impact. He'd never had one like that in his life before. He now knows how I feel every day.

Daniel [01:08:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're still alive, yeah. Right.

Niclas [01:08:48] Wild. Crazy thing. So all in all really wild. So first this, I think, this week before, so the week itself and then the recovery from it, that was probably the most intense, I don't know, 14 days of your life so far, so...

Björn [01:09:03] The month was pretty heavy, with the preparation and everything.

Daniel [01:09:07] Yeah, and when you look at it, I think the preparation for you, so I had, I have a coach and the guy at some point wrote me 40 hours of training per week beforehand. So of course then you don't really need to work anymore, but you're just training and eating, and yeah, that was intense and was good, and I also read yesterday from the previous record holder, from Alex McCormick, an Insta post that his racing season for this year is over, because he just went so deep and just can't handle any more. And I think that's the big challenge for coaches, for people in general, to steer themselves so that they may push their limits, but afterwards recover so well that they still feel like it. And now, I've been riding for a few weeks, so I don't know, the first one or two weeks. I mean, if you don't know how your mailbox opens, then you don't need to see a whole street either.

Björn [01:09:54] Which side do you see now?

Daniel [01:09:56] Exactly, so I was actually off for one or two weeks. I think after a week I was on the bike briefly, like an hour or so. I rode to the ice cream parlor once maybe. But I wasn't training and that's when you lose it. It's just unbelievable. You don't have any VO2max anymore. You don't have any performance capacity anymore. And then our connection is also so great, that you know, okay, the guy currently just doesn't need a plan, just let him do what he wants, and that suits me too. And exactly, I now have this joy and pleasure in riding again, and it's all coming back. So the performance values are of course nowhere near where they once were, but what I also wanted to say with this post from Alex, the greatest thing you can maintain, or should maintain, is the joy of it. And especially when you ride a lot or push to a limit, then it's good and important in my view to test that limit. But I think there's a bonus card in life. And you can cross off something occasionally, but you can't take too much at once, otherwise you burn out. And I really know a lot of people who train a lot or have trained. Also a few triathletes who say that would be the horror now, to do another triathlon later. Who just completely lost the desire. And that's something, exactly, I currently have the drive again, and yeah, I'll have to call in a bit. I have Further plans.

Björn [01:11:21] I thought I'd be rid of Daniel after the record. And now he's back at me. But briefly again about training, and that's a nice point you're making. We had, of course Daniel always trains, but we always kept it on a low flame, so we maintain a good level that works well with family and social life. We're not talking about 25 hours a week, but more like 15. Yeah, and then we had, and Daniel has a mega base, yeah, he's done a lot in the years before, we knew what we were getting into, and then we had very targeted concentrated weeks where we said, okay, now we're going to hammer through 40 hours in Mallorca. twelve hours in the TT position and stuff like that. And just to maintain the joy, and that's the key point in a world record attempt like this, if you arrive there mentally spent because you've pulled who knows how many hours through your legs before, then nothing will work out at all. And that's how we did it, we had these very highly concentrated weeks and the rest kind of on the back burner, on the low-flame keep-warm plate, where we said, okay, form is good, above all having the drive, that's the decisive thing.

Niclas [01:12:32] I think that's something that a lot, lot, lot of athletes extremely underestimate. When I'm at the start line of a competition, I need to have maximum drive to get everything out of myself. And what you said too, finding your limit — you can only find your limit if you want it 100% in your head, and if you're 100% ready and fresh enough to do it. And I think this is especially something for young athletes, and also athletes who haven't yet celebrated maybe such big successes — to learn that and to get the right balance between, okay, how much training do I need to get into my best possible physical shape, because I think these days in pro sports you have to be extremely fit. But still, to have the balance so that when I'm standing there on race day, I'm ready and eager to go absolutely full gas. And I think many athletes burn themselves out too much in training, and I think Björn knows that much better than I do, because he's been doing the job much longer. Very often as a coach, the job is simply to rein people in massively, because pro athletes, high-performance athletes who have these kinds of goals — like you, Daniel — they always want to push, they want to get better, they think 'I have to do more now', and as a coach you very often have to say, no, right now If you're doing your 15 hours, you still have to manage everything else too. Like Björn's — I think this is my favorite anecdote — this idea of building a house. You always have to make sure you build your house slowly and that the house stays standing. Because if your house — I don't know — if one wall breaks off, then you don't have a house anymore. And that's no use to anyone.

Daniel [01:14:08] I'd even go a step further, based on my own experience and also from conversations with many other athletes. Training is just the activity I do. But there's so much more around it. It's much more multi-layered. I mean, if you're not training, you can theoretically read up on nutrition stuff and drive yourself crazy. Or you can think about how to make your equipment even better. You can do all of that, of course. And you should do it too, to reach a certain level. But the head has to be fresh. And if I'm only ever focused on cycling, or on optimizing the whole thing, then I drive myself crazy. And I think that composure helps a lot of people — first of all, to have more fun again, to be more capable, and through that also to perform better.

Björn [01:14:53] That's why Daniel picked a coach like me.

Daniel [01:14:56] Yeah, exactly. In the years before you, I did tend to ride more. So that's probably what you'd say too. With Björn I actually started training less. But harder, more specifically, and more seasonally. So in winter we train — well, I train, significantly less than when it gets more specific.

Björn [01:15:15] And that way you can... And also things outside of cycling. I love talking about completely different things too. And those things simply need to... take up space. I think that's part of it, to gain mental distance from all that stuff. As an athlete you definitely have to be able to do that. As a coach you have to be able to do it just as well, because we're also under pressure, under performance pressure. And you have to occupy yourself with completely different things that ground you again a bit. Yeah, definitely. Awesome. Okay, but I've got two more things.

Niclas [01:15:53] You've got — okay.

Björn [01:15:55] Daniel just — well, you could do a lot of other things too, but it would get out of hand. Daniel mentioned this in passing just now, and I think it's important — Daniel talked about the target arc, about his own race that he organizes, and I'd like to bring that up, because it's another cool thing. Tell us briefly, what are you planning in Bad Waldsee?

Daniel [01:16:17] There will be two races. or two events, let me call them. One is the Bad Waldsee Radmarathon, where 1000 participants are supposed to start. That's more of an event and a sportive, so less of a race. And an ultra-cycling event called Allgäu and Spätzle. Interestingly, Peter — you two must know this — was on the last podcast; yesterday I happened to be riding and I looked up what podcasts there are that all somehow deal with the record. And then I heard your recent episode with Peter and thought, ah, interesting, exactly what you talked about there. Um, And Peter has been following Allgäu and Spätzle for a long time. And it's really meant for people exactly like him. So I wanted to have an ultra-cycling event in our region, because our region actually has everything. In a single day you ride from here down to Lake Constance, on the long distance you go over the most beautiful passes in Vorarlberg, then into the Allgäu, then into the Tannheimer Tal, meaning Tyrol, and then back again to Bad Waldsee. Everything I do, I stand behind 100%. I'm not driven by external people, I want to do it the way I would want it for myself. Just the way my vision is. And my vision is to do an ultra-cycling event with really few participants. So 150 participants are supposed to start. But it's almost fully booked. I think there are 20 spots left. And there's also a gravel course, and then I send the people around, and they should get a mix of what I love. Namely, this very meticulous planning that Austrian events have. They're simply the masters of planning, and I find that fascinating. Everything is really planned to a T, and at the same time that love of how Italian ultra-cycling races run. I mean, you arrive and the organizer just kisses you and says, 'Hey Daniel, how wonderful that you're here.' Just this endless love — and I would have liked to try to bring that to Bad Waldsee too. The kissing thing doesn't always have to be taken literally — just taking the attention to heart. But when you arrive drenched in sweat after 750 kilometers, then yes, you'll get a hug from me and be praised, exactly. So then I thought, okay, this is super cool, it's planned — and then I thought, actually it's a shame, because the people locally, the sportives crowd, the recreational athletes here — they get nothing out of it. I mean, nobody rides — the short course is 350, the long course is 750 on the road, and gravel is 450. But that's actually a really awesome monster too. With how much elevation? The gravel has — well, the long course has 11,500 meters of elevation. Yeah, so... Nice. Some take it as a race and some really take it as an adventure. And the adventurers are definitely 80, 85 percent, who say, I've got... two days to ride the thing. I do different start-time slots because I want everyone to have a finish on Saturday. So. That was my plan. And then I thought, ah, actually that's dumb, because the people in this area would then just be spectators and can't participate. So I'll somehow add a 100-kilometer route. And then I thought, also somehow... silly, because that would be totally different regulations — 100-kilometer route and ultra distance don't really fit together — so I'll just call it something different and name it Bad Waldsee Radmarathon. So, and now it's like this: the ultra-cycling event with 150 people was the origin and the idea, and now I additionally — the whole thing started being planned 16 months ago — and now there's additionally the Bad Waldsee Radmarathon. Out of that 100-kilometer route came an 80-kilometer recreational ride, a 125-kilometer road ride, the marathon with 207, and a gravel course with 100 kilometers. And there 1,000 people start. And I organize all of it. And I'm the initiator. And I've spent the last 16 months dealing with traffic authorities, with the public order office, with safety concepts, with... I mean, it's... well... when you have 1,000 starters, you have 2,000 people at the finish. You have to feed them too. And all of it should be the way I would ideally want it. Which of course also doesn't make it very easy, because my wishes and standards are high. So now I've got two events on my plate — in a positive sense — and I coordinate well over 100 helpers. And It celebrates its premiere in September.

Björn [01:20:52] Very good. When exactly in September?

Daniel [01:20:57] Wait, are you thinking of starting yourself, Björn? Yeah, I'm not sure yet whether you'd ride the marathon or whether you'd be cool and say, hey, those seven days in Upper Swabia really caught my eye. I'll go ride an ultra-cycling route now too.

Björn [01:21:10] The longest route I've ever ridden was 660 kilometers. Whoa! Also only by accident.

Niclas [01:21:18] But those things just happen.

Björn [01:21:20] They happen. And the story behind it is this. I was supposed to — or it was 600 kilometers, I don't remember anymore, it was a lot. I was supposed to write a story for Tour magazine about a Fichtkona bike marathon. Mhm. Daniel knows about that, I think.

Niclas [01:21:39] Haven't you told this story before?

Björn [01:21:42] Fichtelgebirge somehow rings a bell now. Once through East Germany, Fichtelgebirge, then across to the island. And exactly — I had a photographer with me, but the weather was awful, there was also the Elbe flood, and he had to drive a different route, and by the end of the day we'd somehow missed each other about a dozen times, and at some point I had, I don't know, 400 on the clock and I said, screw it, I'll just ride the thing through now. The longest route before that was, I think, 400 or so, or 370, but again just out of anger and frustration — I raced a bike race and got dropped after 150 kilometers, at the front in the lead group, and I said, this is dumb, and then I just rode home.

Daniel [01:22:25] With two apples. At most. 35 average, I think, or 37 at the end.

Björn [01:22:31] When exactly would the gravel event be?

Daniel [01:22:34] So the whole thing is on the last weekend in September. The Radmarathon starts on the 26th of September. That's a Saturday. And the ultra-cycling is from the 24th to the 26th. So that means... Too bad. Exactly, they start... Well, there are barely any spots left anyway. So that's why... Yeah, Niclas, too late. Wait for 2027. Um... The fascinating thing is, I'd have to run a timer on how much time I've invested in this. It's unbelievable. The things I get involved with — this whole cycling life that I somehow now lead. Basically my professional life is now mostly something to do with cycling. It's really exciting that this, I don't know, just takes on dimensions like this, because I really want it, and I see so many different perspectives — and I think that's also my drive: my learning curve is maximal. When you do new things, create new things — five years ago I started a school project and now I've got 3,000 students; I visit maybe 10, 15 school mornings a year, and at the beginning it was I visit them because I think I can make a difference — I just tell them how ultra-psychological it all is, what fundraising projects I do, then I show them a few tricks on the bike, nothing special, just safety training, taking corners nicely, riding on the ramp, and so on. And those beaming faces — that's somehow the reward for the work. And at some point local companies came along and said, 'Hey, cool, can you go to this school too, we'll pay you.' And that now I'm standing on stage at some manager seminars, telling people that ultra-cycling — this is the really exciting part — ultra-cycling and management skills, dealing with people, with employees, those are exactly the same qualities. Yeah. So how do I lead my team? How do I treat people? During the seven days — I find this interesting too — I muted someone's mic three or four times. I think that's a really good ratio, but it wasn't — it was simply, I couldn't hear this voice anymore. Then I say, I'm honestly sorry, I just need a break from you. There was no argument. And that's the respectful thing that's simply possible within this whole team. I think dealing with people well is extremely important. And that's what I want to show with these events too. When you have 100 to 150 helpers who are mostly doing it as volunteers — they get compensated a little, but mostly volunteer — they'll only do it again next year if they had fun and feel appreciated. And if these broad events don't exist anymore — and the challenge now, also from the authorities' side — sponsors: without sponsors this thing runs at a deficit. It's really wild. You add up the entry fees and think, hey, this guy must be rich. The guy is paying out of pocket, because the safety concept and everything is so expensive. If you don't have sponsors, you can't pull it off. And that's what people need to understand — nothing is a given. Dear people, wherever you are, use these local events, support them, otherwise they won't exist tomorrow. I think that's also really important — if I look 10, 15 years back, when I started cycling, how many bike marathons there were back then that don't exist anymore today. Despite the boom, the number is still relatively high. Yeah.

Björn [01:25:55] We definitely see it in mountain biking too. Mountain bike marathon has also been massively reduced. So... Yeah, awesome that you're doing something there. I find it exciting as always. And I know, when you do it, it usually turns out really well. Exactly. We'll definitely link that so people can get an impression. And if they still want to snag one of the last spots, they can... Yeah, at the Radmarathon there are still some — the ultra-cycling, you have to be quick.

Daniel [01:26:25] But for the 200-kilometer Radmarathon, you've got a bit longer to have a chance.

Björn [01:26:30] Okay, good. So, if I do think it over, I'll come by.

Daniel [01:26:35] Yeah, I'll announce you big on stage tomorrow.

Niclas [01:26:37] So that's why... Yeah, in the end, Björn, you're already stuck in it now anyway. Yeah, that's how it looks.

Björn [01:26:43] But I also have something from my side that I want to announce. And this is currently still a mere thought that gets to marinate. Namely, with my... good friend Annine Hell, who is also a coach — a very good coach in fact, primarily working in triathlon, but also a bit on the road. I meet up with her regularly here in Munich, and we sit together and talk about all sorts of things. And she had the idea — 'Hey Björn, what we've been talking about the whole time, I think this would interest a lot of people, also when it comes to training and so on.' And we thought, we'll at the end of September or beginning of October do a kind of endurance meetup. More info to follow — in Munich of course, where the two of us sit and chat, and anyone can join and ask questions. Very low-key at first, small scale.

Niclas [01:27:34] So — in quotes — like a live podcast that you'll record and publish too, right?

Björn [01:27:40] Yeah, that would of course be the next step, but for now we want to keep it — for heaven's sake — we don't want a huge crowd to show up yet, people can just come sit with us for now. We'll be at some venue, wherever, and we wanted to announce that this will exist, where people can listen in and throw in questions and so on. That's the plan.

Niclas [01:28:01] If Munich weren't so far, I'd come by.

Daniel [01:28:04] If Munich were in Bad Waldsee, then I'd just put you on stage there, and you'd have a lot of spectators and interested cyclists right from the start.

Björn [01:28:12] Maybe we'll do the first episode in Bad Waldsee. That's actually an idea right now.

Niclas [01:28:18] Good point. You should really — I mean, setting up a camera and plugging in a mic isn't hard. You should really do something like that and livestream it. Because then you'd have the platform where a lot of people could easily ask questions. I mean, firing up a Twitch stream these days is... Or a YouTube stream, super easy.

Björn [01:28:38] I love it — well, a bit smaller, yeah. And fundamentally the question is, is there interest from the cycling community in Munich? I already asked around a bit, yeah. And as a soft announcement — the coming weeks and months it will get more concrete. But saying it out loud already ups the pressure of course. And we'll see.

Niclas [01:29:00] We'll see what happens. Exactly.

Björn [01:29:03] that too.

Niclas [01:29:06] Yeah, give me a date and I'll come around. Good plan. Okay. Okay. I've got nothing else. Well, I have to say first — I'm very inspired right now. Thanks a lot, Daniel. Definitely an awesome story. As soon as the film is ready, please let me know, because I've got to see it. And thanks for sharing your story, because I think a lot of... hobby and amateur athletes can get inspired by it, and I think even a lot of pros could take a page from it, just from a mindset perspective, approaching their own races a bit differently. Because, as you also mentioned, a lot of people do it out of vanity maybe, out of pure ego, but to see it from a bigger perspective — that's, I think, something very inspiring, and it's great that this exists. Yeah.

Daniel [01:29:50] Thanks a lot for the invitation. It was nice being with you. Very good.

Niclas [01:29:55] I think this is our second-longest podcast, Björn, right?

Björn [01:29:59] Which was the longest? Enrique in monologue?

Niclas [01:30:03] I was just about to say. I think Enrique — that's 2:20. Now we're at 1:52. But we also needed half an hour of run-up time before this even worked technically.

Björn [01:30:15] with the hotspot at Daniel's — Daniel, mic terror, switching the recording portal again — I wasn't the problem — I had to smirk when Niclas said plugging in a mic isn't really much of a challenge.

Niclas [01:30:27] Yeah, okay, fair enough. It worked, great. It worked, we recorded it without any issues now. Yeah, thanks a lot, and hopefully see you again soon.

Daniel [01:30:40] Yeah, good.

Niclas [01:30:41] See you.

Daniel [01:30:44] Ciao, ciao.